Konover, Simon_1985,Oral History, April 25, 1985

Simon Konover April 25, 1985

S.K.: I was born in a little town by the name of Makow Mazowiecki. It was about 40 miles from Warsaw.

Interviewer: About 40 miles from Warsaw, that is where you started your life.

S.K.: I am afraid to tell you all about me, because if I tell it to you I may get fired as the President of the Federation.

Interv: Ok, you were born 40 miles from Warsaw you had a father and a mother and what was your father like and what was your mother like and what did your father do?

S.K.: My father was what you would call a business man, when I grew up, he started out I guess with a horse and wagon and then later on he was involved in the transportation business. They had buses that carried passengers from one end of Poland to the other one.

Interv: In other words your father was associated with the Greyhound bus line of the area.

S.K.: Yes they were the biggest bus line in Poland.

Interv: What kind of vehicles did he use?

S.K.: I think they were mostly Fiats, made in Italy.

Interv: Ok, tell me something, did you know your grandparents?

S.K.: I only knew my grandmother on my mother’s side.

Interv: And what was she like?

S.K.: She was a wonderful woman. I can remember her.

Interv: What about the observance thing?

S.K.: I was very little when she died, I was only about 6 when she died I remember her only slightly.



Interv: How about the religious background in your family how did you observe the Sabbath, the holidays and so forth?

S.K.: Well my father was an observant Jew; he would go to shoal three times a day for the morning prayers the late afternoon prayers, and evening prayers. And he tried to get us to go with him as much as possible.

Interv: What was life like did you have any friends that were non Jews or was it strictly a Jewish township and village.

S.K.: Well the town had about 6,000 people all together. 80% of the town was Jewish. We really had very little contact with the Gentile community. We live like in a little ghetto that you would call, all the Jews lived together.

Interv: You didn’t have too much contact with the people. What about Schooling? What type of schools did you attend?

S.K.: Well I went to a Hebrew School for five years, and then I went into what you would call a junior high for one year but I did not finish it because the war broke out.

Interv: How many brothers and sisters did you have?

S.K.: I had twelve brothers and three sisters.

Interv: And where were you in the family? Were you in the middle? Lower?

S.K.: I am the second youngest.

Interv: The second to the youngest, and how much older was your oldest brother to you? S.K.: My oldest brother was seventeen years older than I was.

Interv: Ok let’s just move ahead a little bit. Did you go with your father on the trips? Did you go to Warsaw and places like that?

S.K.: Yes I used to want to go to Warsaw with him because that was the capitol and especially because Jewish food was good there. And we would bring back a lot of good things from there.

Interv: Ok, you were born in 1922 so we were talking about a period of like 1935 or 36 that you went to Warsaw?

S.K.: Yes.



Interv: The city of Warsaw, tell us something about it, big city?

S.K.: Yes the city of Warsaw was very metropolitan, modern city. With a very big Jewish population. Very much educated, the Jews especially were very much educated. And it was and exciting city to go to.

Interv: Streets wide? Boulevards?

S.K.: In certain places, not in the Jewish quarter. In the Jewish quarter the streets were narrow.

Interv: You say the Jewish quarter does that mean that the Jews were living separate? Even in Warsaw?

S.K.: Yes even in Warsaw there was a separate Jewish section that most of the Jews were living. Yes.

Interv: I will jump ahead a little, I understand you went back to visit Poland in recent times.

S.K.: Yes I did.

Interv: Did you go back to Warsaw?

S.K.: Yes I did.

Interv: What did you find there? As compared to what you had left.

S.K.: Well the city was pretty much the way it was but not the Jewish quarter. The Jewish quarter was nothing like it used to be. It is all modern today. They have quite a bit of memorials to the Jews in Warsaw. But I didn’t recognize and of the places that I used to go to.

Interv: But you were able to visit the area of the uprising in Warsaw, the Jewish uprising.

S.K.: Yes.

Interv: And that they do have memorials for that particular area too.

S.K.: Yes.

Interv: Ok, we will go back now to, you were born in 1922 in 1938, 39 the war breaks out 38 did things start?



S.K.: 39 in the fall of 1939.

Interv: And you were just about 16 years old?

S.K.: Yes I was 16 years old.

Interv: What happened? What were you doing at the time it broke out where were you?

S.K.: I was going to school and helping my father a little bit in the business. We heard that war was going to break out any day and one morning we woke up and looked outside the windows and the Germans were in our city. There were only about 50 Kilometers from the German border.

Interv: 50 Kilometers that would be about 30 miles.

S.K.: Yes something like that.

Interv: And they just marched right in?

S.K.: They just came in, in the middle of the night and when we woke up they were still coming in big columns with motorcycles and mechanized divisions it was quite a show. It was a real modern army the way I can remember.

Interv: Did they decide to round up people very quickly and start putting them to work?

S.K.: Yes, two days later there was an announcement that all the young people 16 years and older should show up for work in the morning.

Interv: All people 16 years and older have to come to work, what kind of work?

S.K.: Uh, they made us clean the automobiles, they made us clean the streets, they took some of them to farms to help them farm to harvest the primarily potatoes, corn so they can have it for the winter because winter was setting in.

Interv: How long did that go on for you?

S.K.: Not to long, it went on about two week from what I can remember. And I could see it coming.

Interv: What could you see coming?

S.K.: Well at least I used to give them a good days work, and then when the end of the day would come instead of saying thank you we were made fun of or made to do things that was terrible, like picking up manure with our hands. They were just inhuman.

Interv: Did you get paid for it?

S.K.: No.

Interv: Free? What did people do for money? How did they buy food?

S.K.: Everybody, you know to be honest about it, like a dream money was not my problem, my father used to provide for us, you know I really don’t know how we got along, but somehow there was bread to eat, bread and potato and once in awhile a little bit of meat.

Interv: So young Simon at the age of 16 decides this is something he can’t handle, what did you decide to do? And how did you do it?

S.K.: But the Germans decided for me, they took me into a labor camp. Again, about 30 Kilometers away. And again they wanted us to harvest all the potatoes. Before the winter set in. And they put us in cold barracks, gave us very little food.

Interv: What month was that?

S.K.: It was October, harvest time. And in October it got very cold in Poland already. And I could see that we were not going to last through the winter. So four of us decided we were going to pick ourselves up at night and run away.

Interv: Did you?

S.K.: And we did yes.

Interv: How far did you get?

S.K.: Well, two of us made it the other two did not. We never heard from them again.

Interv: Where did you wind up?

S.K.: I wound up back home.

Interv: Wasn’t it rather odd that you should go back home and you had just been pulled away from there by the Germans.

S.K.: Well, where else could we go? I went back to home. And my father did say to me, “Simon you are not safe here, they are going to come looking for you”. And they were right, a day later they came looking for me, luckily my father and mother, we had a very dark basement, and they had hidden me in the basement. And believe it or not the SS were practically walking over me, and they didn’t find me. If I were to be found I would be shot. Right on the spot.

Interv: Then you left from your home. Your mother packed you up? By the way what happened to your fathers business, they took it over?

S.K.: No by the time war broke out, they confiscated all the buses, the Polish government did that, because there was a lot of anti-Semitism going on already in Poland at that time and all of the partners were Jews so they confiscated the buses so the next thing they did is when into the merchandise carrying, trucking. And they developed a pretty nice business and when the war broke out they took all the trucks away into the army.

Interv: And so now you are on your way. Your mother packed you up gave you what goodies what ever she had.

S.K.: After the Germans came in and looked for me, couldn’t find me, I came up and my father was as white as a piece of paper, and they say to me, “there is no room for you here, you better pick yourself up and go because if they find you they will shoot you”. So then night came my mother took a paramour.

Interv: A paramour is a down quilt?

S.K.: Yes and some little bit of clothes and she sewed in, I really don’t remember but it was some Polish zlotys.

Interv: Zloty is a Polish dollar?

S.K.: Dollar yes, And at night I left home.

Interv: Where did you go?

S.K.: I don’t mind telling you, it was my first time that I was away from home. And I heard that people that take you across the border to the Russian section. You see Poland was divided between Russia and Germany. And my part was taken by the Germans. And about maybe 50 kilometers was the Russian border.

Interv: So you had to go some 30 miles to get to that border. There was only one way to go was on foot I understand.

S.K.: Yes. However when we got to the people that we used to take us across, that’s when I remembered my mother gave me some money to give to them. We made it in one night, then when we came to the Russian side it was getting light already, and some Polish people took us into the house on the Russian side already, and we stayed until later in the day so nobody finds us near the border. And then I walked I think to the big city, it was called Lumza.



Interv: I understand that you were pretty close there and had many incidents and worked together and saved each other, and your brother Harold who is now in Miami. You say you left there by yourself. How did you team up with Harold?

S.K.: Harold was living in Lumza, Harold was in the army because he was four years older. He was in the polish army. And he was taken by the Russians as a prisoner. At that time the Russians let all the Jews out. And Harold lived in Lumza, so that’s why I was going to Lumza so I could find my brother there. And we also had some distant relatives that we were pretty close to in Lumza. So I didn’t know exactly where he went but somehow I found him. I found my brother; he had a job driving a fire truck at that time for the Russians. And it was very convenient he probably lived about ten or twelve in a room about a quarter of this size and maybe even smaller, because every day somebody else would come across the border a friend, and he would gladly slept on the floor, and ate mostly kasha and bread and potatoes, that was our food. And of course it was already in the middle of winter and it was nice and warm.

Interv: Warm?

S.K.: Yes inside, because we had a stove and some of the people of course it was close.

Interv: And where was the bathroom facility?

S.K.: I don’t remember.

Interv: Ok

S.K.: Not in the house

Interv: ok so not indoor plumbing. Harold was driving the fire engine. Did he get you a job driving too?

S.K.: No I was too young I couldn’t get a license at that time. Although I knew how to drive my father taught me. I went to work as a watchman in the factory with the Russians. And I was a watchman.

Interv: How long?

S.K.: Um, about a year and a half.

Interv: You managed to be in that one area for that long a period of time?

S.K.: Maybe it was not a year in a half, maybe it was about a year.

Interv: Ok all this time that you were in Lumza, Russia was an ally of Hitler at that time I believe of Germany.

S.K.: There was no love between them.

Interv: But they weren’t fighting each other yet?

S.K.: No they were not.

Interv: And at about the end of that period was that about the time that the Nazi’s started coming into Russia?

S.K.: No before the Nazi’s came into Russia one morning there was an announcement that all the people from across the border from the German side have to move from Lumza, because it was to close to the border and we were not secure. They were afraid of espionage because there was something going on already. And they shipped us all the way to a little town near Pinsk, called Slonim. And my brother got a job right away, because at that time if you drive an automobile it was really something in Russia. Especially if you could fix it up, and we were able to, because my father had automobiles and we used to watch him. So my brother got a job and I used to help him and I remember I finally got a license and I got a truck and I was driving with him.

Interv: At about this time had you been hearing anything from your family back home?

S.K.: Yes. When we lived in Lumza I said to my brother that I want to go back to where the Germans are and get my parents. And I did go jump the border again and go back to get my parents. And I of course took my life in my hands and my father was determined at the time that he was not going to leave, he said “God will help me” and everything will be ok. My mother was ready to go. And my younger brother that was in the house, he was two years younger.

Interv: He was two years younger than you?

S.K.: Yes, he decided to go with me. We packed him up and again at night we had to jump the border he walked with me at crossroads over the bridge, and he started crying and he went back home and I never saw him again.

Interv: Nor the rest of them?

S.K.: No. By the way we went to the same spot with my wife and my daughter only about three years ago.

Interv: So you went back to Lumza and teamed up with Harold again.





S.K.: That was quite a, we were caught and again it was winter time and we were put into a cold barn. They got so cold they went into warm up and somehow we were able to run away, and we were able to run across the border, and a Polish family took me in and they hid me all day because they were looking for people who jumped the border. The Germans and Russians, because if the Russians saw you coming they would send you right back and if you were sent back the Germans would kill you. So I hid all day and the following night I went back to Lumza.

Interv: Lumza? Ok so now what happened went the German’s started coming into your area?

S.K.: Well this is another episode. I already had a license and my brother which was four years older was told that our jobs would be to evacuate all the civilians, because the Germans started the war and they were going to be here in a day.

Interv: And they packed any truck that they could use for that purpose?

S.K.: Yes

Interv: And the trucks you were using?

S.K.: Yes and I took a truck, I was working as an automobile mechanic at that time, but they gave me a truck and I put a barrel of fuel on the truck and started and took the families of the Russians and headed west. And however the driving was terrible because the Germans were bombing the roads terribly, they were running after, if they saw one person walking they were running after him. So it took us to go about ten miles all night most of the day and all night until the following morning because every time we started driving the bombs would come so we drop, stop and run into the woods and hide until the bombing was over.

Interv: It occurs to me they never hit that barrel of gasoline did they?

S.K.: Thank god for that. However they did hit the truck right next to me in line and there was nothing left.

Interv: People in the road?

S.K.: Yes, everything.

Interv: And I understand Harold caught up with you.



S.K.: Well it’s a miracle. And the miracle that happened is that Harold, I leave in the morning or in the afternoon. And he leaves late at night. It didn’t take the Germans two days to get there. They came in that night into the city. That’s how fast they were advancing. Harold was almost the last one to leave the city with the Russian army and they blew out the bridge. And they started driving and believe it or not there were trucks slowing up and they were hiding in the woods. And Harold pulls up in the same column

about a block or two in back of me and stops and runs into the woods when he comes out we see each other and that’s how we met. Otherwise we would have never seen each other.

Interv: I understand that Harold needed your help then.

S.K.: Well we started up the trucks and his truck broke down, so everybody came into one truck, my truck. They were sitting on the fenders and the cabin standing on the boards and we were driving the truck and we couldn’t go more than ten miles per hour and it was an old truck. But it kept going and going and as fast as we were running that’s how fast the Germans were in back of us. We were told to go to Minsk because Minsk is already a Russian city. And when we got to Minsk the city was burning and we couldn’t get in so we kept on going further and we drove for about a week.

Interv: A week?

S.K.: Yes.

Interv: All these same people?

S.K.: Same people. I don’t know how, but there was very little food. But everybody was running for their life because the Germans we could hear right in back of us. All the shooting and going on. And then I guess finally the Russians made a stand for awhile so we were able to get a little further and the railroads were not bombed so they put up in the railroads on a car, follow us.

Interv: You are saying that they were saving the railroads for themselves in case they needed them and that’s why they didn’t bomb them?

S.K.: No I think they did not get that far yet. They were bombing closer to there and again we get on the railroads and I think rode for about four or five days. They were freight trains. And again I recall an incident a cousin of mine. We had to stop because there were trains coming, so we had to let them through, a cousin of mine was with us with a little boy.

Interv: This train, we were running on a single track operation.



S.K.: Yes

Interv: So every time that a train had to come from the opposite direction, they had to wait for the other train to go by. This kept going on and off the whole time as you were going? S.K.: Yes. And this cousin of mine I guess went to get some water and the little boy was running after him and the train came and killed them right in front of our eyes.

Interv: So you had traveled how long you said?

S.K.: We traveled for about a week. And we would up near Stalingrad.

Interv: From the Polish Russian border practically, where you were.

S.K.: Yes

Interv: That’s what fifteen hundred eighteen hundred miles?

S.K.: No I would say about fifteen hundred kilometers.

Interv: Alright that is almost a thousand miles.

S.K.: Yes.

Interv: Over, not highways, rugged roads.

S.K.: The roads were very poor there.

Interv: No good transportation.

S.K.: No.

Interv: So this took you how long? Several weeks to get there.

S.K.: No. It took us about five or six days.

Interv: Where was Harold?

S.K.: With me. The Germans were bombing the cars while we were going and several people got killed. They used to confuse the transportation so much people were running around without heads, like chopped up heads.

Interv: How about food? What about food?

S.K.: I don’t know we really didn’t think about food we just thought about getting away.

Interv: Alright when you got to Stalingrad, you were there the Germans were coming, but you got to Stalingrad.

S.K.: When we got to Stalingrad we felt very good because the Germans were far away, and we thought that things were going to be good now. We got a job right away, again there was no trouble getting work with our professions. So we got a job, they used the driver never in the army we used to supply the army with food and rations and everything. So we got a job.

Interv: So you were in the supply department in the Russian army? I thought you were civilians.

S.K.: Yes

Interv: And both you and Harold drove for the Russian army? How long?

S.K.: By the way my brother Harold also had his wife with him that he married in Lumza but she came over to Germany.

Interv: So now you were in Stalingrad?

S.K.: Yes and then of course the Germans got very close to Stalingrad and the shooting started. And it was a terrible, terrible winter. The last winter they came to Stalingrad. There was no food, there was not ammunition. The trucks were breaking down. The Russians and the Germans were really playing around they felt they had war won. The reason I think they lost the battle of Stalingrad was that they were so sure of themselves that they took their time. They used to go out and fight for five or six hours and then go home, it was just like a job.

Interv: We understand that their supply lines were so stretched that they couldn’t feed and supply themselves. They were working off the Russian land too because there was nothing left for them to take there also.

S.K.: See where the Germans made mistakes is they, believe it or not the Russian people believe that Hitler like liberated them. But he turned against the people. And they started hating him.

Interv: That was in the eastern part of Russia. The farther you went the worst things got.

S.K.: Yes. They treated people like dogs and everybody turned against them. Like they would take out the daughter and rape her, and the mother would go ahead and put some poison in the tea and poison the German solders.



Interv: Then they would take them all out and shoot them. You stayed in Stalingrad and you’re telling me that the war wasn’t quite over yet. And you had to move out of Stalingrad.

S.K.: What happened is that winter Germany could not get the supplies because there was a lot of partisans that was blowing up the bridges, the weather was cold and the trucks and tanks and motorcycles had oil that couldn’t be used in that cold of the weather, so they let it run all night, because if they stopped it in the morning they couldn’t start the truck or the tank or whatever. So they ran out of fuel. And I think that is what turned the tide in Stalingrad.

Interv: By the way I understand that at that time while you were in Stalingrad some American equipment was coming in already.

S.K.: Yes. We had heard that they were landing supplies on American planes not far from Stalingrad. And I myself drove an American Ford later in Stalingrad.

Interv: Did it break down on you?

S.K.: It was a beautiful automobile, we liked it.

Interv: That was your first close contact with America yes Ford forever.

S.K.: It was a beautiful automobile. Compared to the Russians, yes.

Interv: Have you driven Ford products since you came here?

S.K.: Yes I did.

Interv: O.K. You tell me that you had to head north from there to Siberia, what happened?

S.K.: Well, I probably said something that I wasn’t supposed to say, or did something, we were supposed to deliver something in the morning, in the evening, instead we delivered it in the morning because we were so tired we wanted to stay overnight. And the authorities didn’t like what we were doing and before I knew I was taken to jail.

Interv: Russian jail?

S.K.: Yes.

Interv: Good food, good quarters?

S.K.: Finally, given three years hard labor, and sent to Siberia.

Interv: By the way going to Siberia, they put you on a train to go there?

S.K.: Yes, definitely. On the way back I had a problem, on the way there they took care of us.

Interv: What did you do in Siberia? And how long were you there?

S.K.: We were examined what we know, and of course me being in the automobile business, and being a mechanic, so they put me again in the mechanized division. And we were going to build a boat for supplies to be delivered from the United States to Russian, because the Germans would sink a lot of boats so they thought by taking them to the North Pole they would be able to deliver supplies. So we started to build, but we never completed that and the boats could never come because there were chunks of ice that were stronger than the boats and they couldn’t get to that.

Interv: And meanwhile the war was winding down?

S.K.: Yes, and meanwhile the war was winding down and while I was in Siberia the war was over yes.

Interv: So you are in Siberia, short days long nights?

S.K.: Six months days and six months nights. And it got so cold if you didn’t cover up your face you could take your ears or nose and just break it off. You had to cover up, very cold, I don’t know what the temperature was really.

Interv: And dark all the time as far as winter was concerned.

S.K.: Yes and dark all the time.

Interv: In the summertime, all day light is just like a haze isn’t it? It really doesn’t stay really bright all the time does it in the summertime?

S.K.: No but the snow makes it bright, the white snow the reflection.

Interv: But the sun never really goes down.

S.K.: The snow never melts no.

Interv: O.K. So now the war over, excuse me the Russian and German war was over but your personal battles weren’t over yet, you were in Siberia.

S.K.: Right.

Interv: What did they tell you? “Go your leaving get out of here”.

S.K.: We heard a little bit about the war was over, there was very little communication I think that we heard it about four or five days afterwards. And me being a Polish citizen and

Interv: Did you have papers with you all the time?

S.K.: I had a passport, yes. And it said I was born in Poland, and though I was a Russian citizen at that time. Everybody had to become a citizen if you wanted to eat.

Interv: So you joined the communist party?

S.K.: Yes joined the communist party. And one day I get called into the office and they tell me that I am free. I can go back to Moscow and go to the Polish embassy. Because they needed me in Poland because there is a war going on in Poland.

Interv: That was a different kind of war.

S.K.: That was an internal war; there was two Polish army’s one Russian Polish army and another one English Polish army the two armies were fighting for control.

Interv: They told you to go to Moscow? Did they tell you how you were you going to get to Moscow?

S.K.: Absolutely nothing. They did give us give me a little food. And the next thing I did was caught a train that was carrying coal. And it took me twenty eight days to get back to Moscow.

Interv: Twenty eight days??

S.K.: Yes.

Interv: What was the train stopping and going all the time?

S.K.: Yes, there was only one line, the other train broke down and there were delays and delays.

Interv: Where were you on that train? Were you on top of the coal? Or what?

S.K.: Most of the time on top of the coal. I don’t know how we didn’t freeze.

Interv: Were there other people with you?

S.K.: However they did let some of us go on top of the locomotive, because the locomotive was warm and it was very nice to sit on top of it.

Interv: A steam engine? Did you go to Moscow or did you head straight for Stalingrad?

S.K.: No I went back to Moscow to the Polish consul. By the time I got there sold most of my cloths, I had a lot of cloths, for food. You see if Russia at that time bargaining if you had shoes, if you could sell the shoes so you could get food. If somebody had food and if you had shoes, that’s how we used to exchange. But I made it to Moscow in my underwear.

Interv: Long underwear?

S.K.: Yes and very heavy underwear too. Padding in there for the winter. And I went to the Polish council and they were very nice to me. The first thing is they gave me a shower. And next thing they gave me food. And I told them I wanted to go back to Stalingrad to see if I could find my brother. They say no we would like you to go to Poland. I said I am going to find my brother and then I will come back.

Interv: And by the way if I may ask you a question, what color did you say the underwear was?

S.K.: Black

Interv: Natural black.

S.K.: And they gave me food to last me for four days and I ate it in one meal I was so hungry and I got good and sick too.

Interv: You were heading from Moscow to Stalingrad. Did you go by train?

S.K.: Yes and that was already a passenger train. Not luxurious but not bad. The council gave me some money.

Interv: The Polish consul?

S.K.: Yes.

Interv: And you found Harold again?

S.K.: Found him in another little town right near where I lived.

Interv: Near Stalingrad?

S.K.: Yes.

Interv: And you started making post war plans?

S.K.: Yes and they looked at me and said “how wonderful you look”. And really I was swollen from hunger and cold and everything yes. And we stayed there for about six months thereafter and by that time things settled a little bit more in Poland, and we decided to leave Russia by telling the Russians we had to go back to find our families. And when we find our families we will come back, we told them.

Interv: And they let you go? What about the Jews in Stalingrad weren’t there a few Jews there?

S.K.: No I did not see a Jew, just my brother and myself.

Interv: The reason I ask that question if I may there was talk people in that time sequence we talking about going to Israel. And I wondered if you had any of this type of conversation you had no one to talk to.

S.K.: See the reason I am here is because there are good people all over. An old lady was living in a house near Stalingrad and she took us in for the winter, a Russian lady. And when we told her we were Jews she wouldn’t believe it. There really were no other Jews in Stalingrad, not at all.

Interv: Did she know what a Jew was?

S.K.: She thought we had horns or something but she wouldn’t believe it.

Interv: And she was hospitable to you?

S.K.: Yes very nice and we would help her to. We would go to the woods and cut wood and bring it home so we could be warm. And then we worked so we could get food.

Interv: Did she have a family?

S.K.: She had a daughter.

Interv: And a husband?

S.K.: No her husband got killed.

Interv: How did you decide you couldn’t stay in Stalingrad?

S.K.: No we decided we were going to go back home.

Interv: Back home to Poland.

S.K.: Poland yes. And of course we didn’t know what had happened in the gas chambers at that time.

Interv: You didn’t know that there were such a thing.

S.K.: We knew that Jews were being killed but we did not know which way or how. And we were told again where to go. We couldn’t just go where we wanted. We went to the German part that became Poland.

Interv: Who told you were to go.

S.K.: The Russians. They told us to go to the Polish counsel. They wanted to put the population into the German part of Poland. So that is where they sent us.

Interv: How did you get here?

S.K.: Ok, I had a brother here that left the country before I was born, he was seventeen years old. He left in the beginning of the year in 1922 and I was born later part. And I also had uncles here. My father was the only brother out of five that stayed in Poland. All the other ones left.

Interv: Just in case anyone wants to go to Poland and look up the Konover family what name does he look for?

S.K.: Konache.

Interv: And how did Konover come about? Was that Dave’s doing when he got here?

S.K.: Well it was really in Poland _____. But ch there is no ch in the English language I guess my uncle decided to change the name.

Interv: You had always known of course that David was here although you hadn’t heard from him in years and he couldn’t hear from you either. But you knew that he was here, so how did get to HIAS or whatever how did that come about?

S.K.: Before we had the chance to get in touch with him HIAS, published the names of people that survived in Poland.

Interv: Where were these publications that you could see them? In Warsaw or where?

S.K.: Somehow we told some HIAS people our names and everything and they published them in New York and one of my cousins read that my brother and I are alive. And by the time we got in touch with him through a letter they already knew that we are there and the minute found out that we are alive and I really had a really wonderful family.

Interv: Just for the record the HIAS is the Jewish agency.

S.K.: Yes

Interv: It is part of the Jewish agency. It is the resettlement part of the Jewish agency it is the same organization that has now been working to get the Russian Jews to come here and resettle them too. It is still HIAS the same basic organization.

S.K.: Before the war the HIAS used to do mostly they used to teach ____ to Jewish people. And after the war they got involved very much in the resettlement

Interv: The Jewish agency.

S.K.: Yes.

Interv: So when you make your contribution somewhere in your mind it clicks that you got help and now….

S.K.: I, there were a lot of good people and I got a lot of breaks with people, and when I make a contribution I feel very very good about it, because I never thought that this would ever happen to me, ever.

Interv: Alright so you found HIAS and HIAS publicized the fact that you are alive. Ok. So your uncles and brothers that are here in the states have heard now that they have two brothers that were over there in Poland and waiting to be rescued as it were.

S.K.: Yes.

Interv: And what year was that now 47?

S.K.: My brother was able….

Interv: David?

S.K.: My brother David.

Interv: And for the record David Konover was in business here in West Hartford, he operated a floor covering business called Channing Konover. And David Konover passed away 3 or 4 years ago.

S.K.: Yes 4 years ago.

Interv: And just for the record, when you refer to your brother David we will know who you are talking about.

S.K.: He was really wonderful, when he left being 17 years old, and he put himself through school, and he went into business in New York somehow into the floor covering business. That’s how it happened that he was the he was into floor covering here. And he would send money every month home to my father, to the family. And then he heard that we were alive there was nothing too expensive or to much for us. As a matter of fact, he was able to give somebody money here and I got money over there because people couldn’t take the money out. So he gave somebody money in New York and so that was how we lived there and that’s how we were able to get along.

Interv: How did you get here? Were you, well you decided of course you couldn’t stay in Poland and David certainly wanted you to come here.

S.K.: I really wanted to go to Palestine, and my brother wanted to go to Palestine.

Interv: That’s Harold?

S.K.: Yes, my brother Harold. But the family almost insisted, which I am not sorry, that we come to the United States and they did everything possible, though we couldn’t get in.

Interv: They had a quota system here.

S.K.: Yes, I was running for seven years and finally there is no place to go, Palestine we couldn’t go because the English won’t let you in, to America we can’t go because the Polish quota’s is taken. To Canada we can’t go because Canada has too many people already. So finally they were able to get us a visa to go to Cuba. So we came here for two weeks and then we had to leave for Cuba.

Interv: You had a chance to see your brother, but you were a tourist here but you couldn’t stay here on a permanent basis.

S.K.: It was just like a dream. It almost wasn’t real.

Interv: But finally after waiting things out you got here. Harold by the way came here by plane I understand.

S.K.: Yes, Harold and his wife their baby, their first born was born in Paris, in France, in the Rothchild hospital. She became pregnant after they left Russia. The baby was very sick because of malnutrition, so it was a question of time the baby would not survive, so it was an emergency so he took a plane to get here faster. I took…..

Interv: Isle de France

S.K.: I took the Isle de France to come here yes.

Interv: You must tell us about the Isle de France it was not a luxury liner was it?

S.K.: Well at the time it was converted to an army boat. Troop transportation. And they had two thousand people on there. And the weather was so bad that we had to stop for three days in the middle of the ocean we couldn’t go. But we made it.

Interv: So that was the frosting on the cake after all that experience, how you came into America was not even light. Ok, so you spent some time in Cuba you finally wrestled your way into the United States and then you came here to Hartford. You finally… wait you worked here in Hartford.

S.K.: No, I went to work in New York as an automobile mechanic for 17 dollars a week, that was my first job and it was a cousin of mine which I still see him very often that gave me the job.

Interv: That’s the start of the Konover fortune ladies and gentleman I guess 17 dollars a week in the United States. Then you decided to come to Hartford.

S.K.: Then I decided to come to Hartford and I went to work for Grody. For a dollar an hour, Grody Chevrolet.

Interv: Grody Chevrolet?

S.K.: Grody Chevrolet yes.

Interv: A dollar an hour, you couldn’t have made what 17 dollars a week?

S.K.: Which was very good at that time and there was not enough work, so they laid me off and I was going to go back to New York, but brother said why don’t you come to home with me and work with me at Channing and Konover. And that’s how I stayed in Hartford with my brother.

Interv: I understand Grody organization did you the best favor of your life when they told you you can’t be an automobile mechanic.

S.K.: A lot of people ask me how did you get into business, I say I couldn’t get a job.

Interv: Alright, but you did get something else at about that time.

S.K.: Yes.

Interv: A lady by the name of Doris Konover, what was her maiden name?

S.K.: Marcus.

Interv: Doris Marcus of Norwich came to Hartford I understand. And you and she…

S.K.: Yes, I was fixed up on a blind date and it was love at first sight, and we were married very shortly thereafter and I think it was one of the best things that ever happened to me.

Interv: How many children Simon?

S.K.: We have three children, wonderful children, my daughter Jane is here, and we have a boy Michael and a boy Stephen.

Interv: And did Jane bring something with her too?

S.K.: Yes Jane had her daughter, my granddaughter Karen, and she is taping my story she would like to know about what’s happened.

Interv: That is on of the reasons why we feel it is so important to get these things into some sort of record so that that generation will have an opportunity to really know that this memory, what we heard about our grandfather, what we heard from our grandfather is very important. So now you and Doris are married and you are raising your family you are not an automobile mechanic, you are working now with your brother David at Channing Konover.

S.K.: As a truck driver.

Interv: You are driving truck and you are also helping with instillation work too.

S.K.: And then I became a helper and then I became a mechanic and then I became a salesman.

Interv: You progressed up the ladder.

S.K.: And of course I spoke very little English. I went to night school, at Hartford High it used to be on Broad Street. I remember that and I would go to night school there and learn the language, I remember when I was writing, they would write it out into English for me and I would change it into Jewish so I would know the Yiddish.

Interv: So how did you start the progression into the construction business the development business and so forth? What was your start? From what I gather, there wasn’t a lot of money in the Konover, your own business.

S.K.: There is a certain thing called mazel. I think that all my life I had mazel I had mazel when I was suffering.

Interv: And broken

S.K.: And I had four hats when I came here, and I was determined, I was very determined that I was going to make it, I mean survive, I going to survive, and then I came here I wanted to be somebody, I wanted to do some good things, I wanted to be part of the community.

Interv: You started at the very bottom.

S.K.: Yes we did. Again I started at a dollar an hour at Channing Konover.

Interv: How did you start into business for yourself?

S.K.: I told you, I couldn’t get a job.

Interv: I didn’t ask you why, I just asked what was the key? What was the schlissel to the whole thing. How did the whole thing begin to move into that direction? There are a lot of people who have jobs who will get their raises on a regular basis and they will risk that, you did.

S.K.: Well a lot of people here will remember there was a Carvel’s ice cream place on North Main Street.

Interv: It is actually Wilson right

S.K.: Yes it is Wilson.

Interv: Right over the line in Windsor.

S.K.: And we did a floor covering job for Mr. Carvel.

Interv: That was Channing Konover

S.K.: Channing Konover right, there was a mistake we weren’t supposed to put certain tiles in certain places it wasn’t his fault and it wasn’t my fault, but we always stood in back of our work so we went back and fixed it up and kept fixing it up and one day Mr. Carvel said to me I just got a piece of land from the state in back of my restaurant they took away a piece in the front to put in interstate 91, I would like to build a motel their. I say how much land do you have? He explained it to me and I say let me see what I can do. And the wheels started turning right there and then we started out building a 33 room motel. And how we got the money was a miracle but we somehow got it. And it was an instant success.

Interv: His land was security to begin with.

S.K.: Yes it didn’t cost us, he became a partner. And we built another 33 units and then we built another 33 units and it was a very good business. Interv: And that was the beginning.

S.K.: Yes.

Interv: You saw that it could be done.

S.K.: Yes

Interv: And then you started to go into the development of shopping centers.

S.K.: Once I did this motel.

Interv: Did you leave your job or were you still getting a dollar an hour?

S.K.: For awhile I was working. The year was 1957.

Interv: 1957 and that was the beginning.

S.K.: And then Stephen was born.

Interv: And then Stephen came along.

S.K.: Yes as a matter of fact Doris was pregnant with Stephen and I had two jobs I was working in the floor covering and I was building a building so I was home very little.

Interv: You earned that dollar an hour didn’t you?

S.K.: Those were tough times, we live in a wonderful, wonderful country there are so many opportunities if you want to do it, there is no limit what you can do. I always knew that I would be able to make a living, but I never knew that things were going to happen to me the way they did. We would build one shopping center and then the same people would come back to me and say build me another one then build me another and that’s how it all started.

Interv: Wasn’t your luck tied in with other people who also knew they could handle this area who were also doing rather well in that section?

S.K.: That was about time the early discount houses was Sears Roebuck, Montgomery Ward, Kresge. That was the 5 and 10 cent stores. A lot of young entrepreneurs decided to go into business and they started opening up discount houses, they grew tremendously and we grew with them. Together, because they didn’t have much to lose and we didn’t have much to lose, so.

Interv: And just like you some of them are still growing thank God.

S.K.: Yes and one of them we are still doing business with as you all know here in Hartford is Ames, the Gilman Brothers, we build there first store near Buffalo New York.

Interv: How many years ago?

S.K.: About twenty years ago. And Ames is also successful business that started out with fifteen thousand dollars. That the father sold his farm and willed the money to his sons. And today the company is probably worth about 253 hundred million dollars.

Interv: They are now doing over 800 million dollars a year and they are going to double that amount of business when they take over the other accounts, just in case you want to know. Taking over another company of their size. And thank God for decent people, they are nice people, and that’s something for the record too. That people can do well as you have Simon, without going for the jugular, without leaving a bad trail behind you with the feeling that whatever for dollar for dollar you have given good value all though the years this is something you’ve told me that you treasure most of all and the fact that you can come back and say hello and shake hands with the same people that you did business with yesterday.

S.K.: We are still doing business with most of the same people that we started with day in and day out every day. And it is wonderful you don’t have to get the last dollar out of every deal you make, you can do it in a nice way but you let everybody know and you know it yourself, and I think if you are good at it and you try I think good things will come.

Interv: Well Simon there is enough of your story that we could have probably carried this on quite a bit longer but we promised you especially since your recent illness that we wouldn’t keep you overtime. But I have with me for those who care to look at it a little brochure, and Simon tells me that they are going to come out with something even newer, but this will give you some idea of the accomplishments of Simon Konover and Associates, he doesn’t do this all by himself by the way. And the record of his company and the progress that Simon has made speaks for itself but more that anything else the fact that Simon Konover has been actually one of the very mainstays of the Hartford Jewish Federation and so many things here that he is becoming actually an institution.

S.K.: I would like to say a few things about the Federation, and I am not going to ask for money.

We live here in Hartford in a wonderful Jewish community, we have some wonderful wonderful wonderful people here and that’s what got me involved and it got me involved because people are dedicated, people realize what happened and of course I realize it more than anybody else, what happened to me and my family and all Jews, we have to make the best of it, we have to stay united. We have to be as one, not like we were in Europe, we were disorganized, we had no place, and we got dispersed. Matter of fact we were just like gypsies. Today we have our own country we can be proud of it’s a wonderful flourishing democratic country where every Jew can come anytime it wants whenever it wants and feel free and we have to do everything possible that nothing happens to Israel. Because God forbid, God forbid and I don’t even going to mention the name we can’t live without Israel as Jews we have to have the country and we have to do whatever we can, and again we have a wonderful Jewish community here we have dedicated people and its wonderful, wonderful to give and to do and to stay together and that’s how we will survive and prosper.

Interv: Thank you Simon. We have just listened to a good part of what is your life, and for a person who started out in this venture this particular venture of being interviewed and you told me that you were hesitant and we found that you told us an engrossing story and I am sure that when we play our tape back we will find that tonight we have one of our really great interviews and of course you will have a chance to hear it yourself, and I really want to thank you on behalf of the Jewish Historical Society your friends our guests and all who are present it has been a wonderful evening with you Simon, thank you very much.

S.K.: Thank you very much.