Lazowski, Philip_1977/4/13, Oral History, 1977 - 1977

Lazowski, Rabbi Philip_1977

Interviewee: Rabbi Philip Lazowski Interviewer: Alan M. Kent Interview Location: Jewish Historical Society of Greater Hartford Meeting Interview Date: 1977/4/13 Interview Audio Location: (Box 9_Number 150) Transcription by: Janet Poitras

AK = Alan M. Kent PL = Rabbi Philip Lazowski

Side One

Announcer: Today is April 13th, 1977. We are about to record an open meeting of the Jewish Historical Society of Greater Hartford. Rabbi Philip Lazowski, spiritual leader of Beth Hillel Synagogue in Bloomfield will be interviewed tonight for the oral history archives of the Jewish Historical Society by Mr. Alan M. Kent.

Born in Poland Philip Lazowski was caught in the maelstrom of World War II in 1941 at age 11. Until 1945 he was in the underground resistance movement. Following liberation, he attended and graduated from Hebrew High School in Austria, after which time he left for the United States in 1948. He continued his education in New York City graduating from Yeshiva University, Teacher’s (?) Institute, following which he received a B.A. and an M.A. in Religious Education. He was ordained in 1962 and earned his doctorate in Jewish Study eight years later. Brought to Hartford as Education Director for Beth Shalom Synagogue, Rabbi Lazowski became its rabbi several years later.

When Beth Shalom merged with Beth Hillel in 1969 he remained as rabbi. Rabbi Lazowski is the author of Faith and Destiny, an intense book describing his Holocaust experience. He has been active in the Jewish and non-Jewish communities. He is a Hartford Police Chaplain, a member of the Board of Commissions on Aging, a pat president of both the Educators’ Council of Connecticut and the Jewish Education Council of Hartford. He is also a member of the Rabbinical Assembly of Connecticut.

He will be interviewed tonight by Alan M. Kent, a Hartford native and a veteran of World War II. He has been an active participant in community affairs. Founder and past president of Beth Shalom he is now a member of the Beth Hillel synagogue and Board of Director, where he is also a life member. He also has been president of a number of other organizations. M. Kent and Rabbi Lazowski.

(Applause)

AK: Thank you, Mrs. (?). My name is Alan Kent and I am conducting this interview for the Jewish Historical Society of Greater Hartford for the purpose of research and study.

I have known Rabbi Lazowski for the past twenty-three years, and it was my privilege to interview him when he first arrived in Hartford. I was also privileged to serve as the chairman of the committee when he had his Bar Mitzvah with the Beth Shalom Synagogue and I also had the privilege of attending many of his numerous functions.

Rabbi Lazowski has a message to bring to the people, and in order not to take any time from him I will turn this microphone over to Rabbi Lazowski. And I will say this: I know that parts of what Rabbi Lazowski has to relate is really soul-searching and I hope you will bear with him because we’re going back quite a number of years and some of the tender remembrances that he has to bring forward. Rabbi Lazowski, the spiritual leader of the Beth Hillel Synagogue of Bloomfield, Connecticut, its Rabbi and Education al Director. Rabbi Lazowski.

Rabbi , I’m going to ask you to give us a few pointers first of all where were you born.

PL: I was born in a little town called Galitzia which is not far away from Lida which is the …of Vilna in the year on June 13, 1930.

AK: Tell us something about your childhood, Rabbi.

PL: I was the firstborn son of the family. We have in the family five children. First son, of course, that’s me, then my younger brother Rachmael, then Abraham, Aaron and my sister Rachel. My father and mother lived together in one little town and the five children. I hardly knew my father or mother at this early age because my father was a businessman, he was a fisherman. Let me explain to you what a fisherman means. A fisherman in Europe means that you own a number of miles of river where people are allowed to fish just for you and the catch to be sold to my father. So, and he in turn used to take this fish and transport it to the bigger cities for a profit. My mother was a lady that had a store for clothing, not clothing like we have, in Europe there is no such thing as a ready made suit like today we have, just material for dresses for clothing. And we had a number of people that took care of us, one the cook. I never went to a public school. I always had a private teacher who took care of certain needs and so on. So we lived in a small little town that is very unusual. The town was on the river Neman, which passes through quite a long stretch of land near Lida, Galitzia, all this the lands that makes the town very beautiful. No electricity, no pollution. Everything was done in a primitive way where people enjoyed the splendor of the town.

AK: Now let me understand that your father conducted a fish business by permitting people to rent boats but all fish had to be purchased by your father and then he sold that fish in the bigger cities.

PL: Right. And then the fish was distributed to the towns where they purchased the fish for a business I knew very little about it because I was at that time at the age when the war started, the age of 9. But I remember a story, which is called fish story, yes? But it’s a true story. I imagine I was at the time the age of six or seven and during summertime they used to bring all the fish, we had an ice house, which means in the wintertime we used to go and chop the ice from the river and they used to bring the ice in a big wagon into this ice house, and they used to store all the ice during the summertime when the catch was made, the fish was made, and then in the ice. So in reality one such fish was caught. It must weigh without exaggeration about a hundred pounds or so and it was lying there on the ice, and two people had to take this big fish and place him into the ice house. While my father was bending down to pick up the fish and he was at the tail end and the other man was on the head, the tail slapped my father right in the face and he turned him over. And the story is you can see what a fish can do to a father and it taught me a lesson never to go next to the fish tail, only the head. So it’s sometimes better to have the head than the tail. This is a story from my childhood that I will always remember.

AK: Let us proceed, Rabbi. I know at the tender age of, specified in your book Faith and Destiny , uh, you specified some very tiring, distressing things that happened to you and members of your family, and some things I know are not in the book, would you care to relate at this time.

PL: Many things are not in the book because really the book’s supposed to the close to five, six hundred pages but not everything is able to print because of financial obligation it cost to print the book. But certain things are always important to relate. Let me start first at the age of five when I had a private teacher. And I always observed the young people going to public school and imagined them enjoying life, playing soccer and going by bicycle.

I never had that because the teacher was there from early morning and he always had the book in his face, and he was a gentleman with a kind smile, that always meant something when he looked put the window. And the man was very bright. As a teacher I always respected him. He never used a pencil, always by heart. And he taught me from the Bible, the prophets and also mathematics just by heart. And in, as I recall, as I was a good student, I wrote in the book, … which means to see to it what does my son, what was the grandchild doing over here, we pay money, let’s see what he knows.

And he looked down in … and silver money keeps flying from heaven, and this is a sign that you are a wonderful student. And this is one of the things that we used to do in examining the children in those days especially when you were very young age. So at the age of five I started school and I studied quite well. Everybody was proud of three, and this was going on for three years. At the age of eight and of course reaching the age of nine in 1939, the war started.

The war started on September 1st, 1939 when the Germans and the Poles and fortunately enough our territory was seized by the Russians. From 1939 ‘til 1941 we were occupied by the Russians. A new regime, new politics, new ideas, new philosophy developed. The Russians came in and I have to tell you everything they saw they bought because the ruble was so cheap and the zloty, that’s the money of the Polish people was so high. Since my mother had the store we were considered as a “panyeshi” (sp?) that is, the capitalist and unfortunately anybody who was a capitalist was sent to Siberia. And my mother with the five children …you know what that means? To bake dry bread, who knows for the destiny to go on the train, and then at night you hear a knock on the door and they tell you to take whatever you can on your back, and you leave everything that you possess, and you march. So from 1939 until 1940 there was a soul-searching time. Father, no work, and Mother, of course whoever had a store they had to give everything, belongs to the government, and we cannot get a job. The reason is we were too rich, and rich people belong in Siberia. So I recall Mother staying up nights, and I says “Mother, why are you watching through the window?” And she says “You know, it looks like we are next.” And the pack was ready to go which I did not describe it in the book, and the story is that the fear is always us with the Jew, to be exiled to Siberia because Mother was too rich, or she not of the working class. And then of course by the end of 1940, my father got a job to provide fish or to supply the fish to the government of Russia that was one of his main jobs that he did before so, and why we were waiting for so long, a year and a half, we got suddenly, finally, he got a position to be able to supply fish to the government.

AK: Did he get paid by the government?

PL: Yes, the government pay, you can live on the pay, but in reality, once you get the position you are no more an exile. It means, and this was the greatest joy for our family, that we will be able to stay in the town that we were born.

AK: You lost the title of capitalist in other words.

PL: I was the status of capitalist and suddenly I became a … which means a citizen of Russia. And out town were very poor people, very educated people, very talented people, very learned people, they always respected the person who has learned. And I continued during these two years of going to a school which is called the Russian School, and in the Russian School there was taught three languages at that time: Yiddish, Polish and Russian, of course, was the main language and ‘til the year of 1941, which means the war started between Russia and Germany. At that time I was eleven years of age.

AK: Tell us, Rabbi, at age eleven, your brothers and sister, how were they faring? I believe your sister Rachel would have been about what three years old?

PL: Rachel, we were a year apart usually, sometimes a year and a half depends on the situation, of course, I was the oldest. By the way, you shouldn’t laugh because it’s a mitzvah to have children, as you know that. “…” which means be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth. And as Jews we are very observant. My younger Rachmael which was when the war started in 1941 he was 10 years of age and my next in line was Abraham was nine years of age, and then Aaron was eight, seven-and-a-half, and the young lady Rachel, the youngest of the family, was around five-and-a-half, six years of age.

AK: Rabbi, we know when the war broke out between Poland and Russia and Germany things for the Jewish people did not fare so well and I know that your family was in the midst of it all. Would you tell us now what happened when the war was actually declared.

PL: I remember one beautiful Sabbath that I recall the sun was shining brightly and usually at shabbas we used to go for “Chunt (sp?) to the grandfather, and the whole family was at lunch for “Chunt (sp?) after the services and suddenly we heard some shots. We know that the Germans are close by but we didn’t know they are already in town. About three or four kilometers from the shtetl Galitzia was an airport, a military airport that airplanes were flying and landing, etc. Somebody informed the airport that the Germans are in town. All the people, the “logicas” (sp?) which the pilots were called ran right away, some with the airplanes and some with the cars, came to find the Germans. I want to emphasize one thing. All the soldiers from Russia at that time was to be recognized because everybody had to wear their hair cut to crew cut, you cannot notice the hair. Which means clean-shaven, their head, maybe for health reasons, there were so many lice but I would like to make this important point.

The reason I am mentioning this is very important. When the Germans tried to attack from one side and the Russians, the pilots came from the other side, the only way they could win this is by burning down the city, the town completely. And while we were at that time at grandfather’s house we heard the shots and we right away ran back into our house. And of course my father took the children and my mother was holding the little baby, Rachel, and we went down the cellar. And the bullets were going back and forth and the Germans came over and asking “Is there any Russian soldiers here?”

Now, the reason I mention the fact my father was bald. And at that time he looked like a Russian soldier because all the Russian soldiers were bald. They said “You’re Russian. Come, we’ll shoot you.” He says “This is my child.” And the children fell upon his bosom and so on to prove that he is a …” And he said “Rauss!Rauss! (sp?), everybody out!”

Everybody went out from the house and the house in two minutes was on fire. We just went out of the house with one little jacket, nothing and everything was gone within a few minutes.

AK: So actually his sole purpose was to get you out of the house and then burn it down. You took no possessions with you other than what you could carry?

PL: That’s correct.

AK: No one was injured or hurt?

PL: Well no, nobody at that time was injured or hurt from the family itself but a lot of people because a lot of people were burned with all the shooting in the middle, a lot of people were burned especially innocent by-passers. There were a lot of people from other towns and the town people themselves got caught in the middle and unfortunately got shot and burned beyond recognition.

AK: Tell me, Rabbi, from this point, what was your avenue of escape? Where did you go to? Did you have any friends, neighbors? To whom could you turn?

PL: Well most of the people, the village was burning, of Galitzia , everybody was marched to go on the other side next to the river. And from the other side of Galitzia the houses remained and thank God, the house where my grandfather resided was intact. So while we were waiting during the night to watch the splendor of fire that he can see for many miles away my grandfather’s house remained and then my aunt, my mother’s sister Leah, she plays a very important role in my book, she came in the morning, she found us, to take us back to the grandfather’s house. And Grandfather was a very generous man, and a very intelligent man, I might add, that he was, by they way, in America before the war, and he didn’t like certain things in America Jewish-wise and he had to return back to Europe. But he had a very large house and the people that, all the people that lost their homes were invited for weeks and months were invited to stay in this house with food and everything which was provided for them since they had no place else to go.

AK: Was your grandfather that well off that he could offer refuge to all of these people, and feed them, and house them during this particular time?

PL: Yes. One incident that I didn’t describe in the book is this: you see the father that was providing the fish also had different kind of fish, like herring. When the fire was burning all the stuff that was placed in the house was on the top of the cellar, and when the house burned the cellar burned along, and all the fish and the herring and so on fell down in the cellar. And since the cellar was all the way down it burned only at the top. This was for weeks and weeks the supply of fish that people was able to eat all this kind of fish. After the fire they went and select all this fish. So in reality this alone provided enough fish in the house plus all the other stuff. My grandfather had many pails of flour. Everybody was helping themselves in order to be able to.

AK: What was the next step after this, Rabbi? We know that the Germans of course stepped up all the activities.

PL: After next step this is the tragedy that begins now. And I would like to make a quote. In the Book of Deuteronomy, Chapter 32, Verse 7, it says … “Remember the past but understand the needs of every generation.” And I think living in history we can appreciate now what I am about to tell you. I know that I can go on for hours and hours, there’s no end to it, but I will try to bring to you the philosophy of the German mind. In order to confuse the people the first thing the Germans did was take out the intelligentsia which means they ordered the rabbi, the doctors, the Hebrew teachers to come up front, they want to talk to them. And of course we good obeying citizens and never know what might be, the rabbi came forward with all the Hebrew teachers, etc. and first of all, they gave a job to the rabbi. They gave him a job to wash the horses and when he finished washing the horses they told him to drink the water. And this is not hearsay. And when he finished the water and they can’t drink anymore, then they put him down to show them how they can make fun. Rabbi …, (that his son by the way is now very close with me in Israel, that was able to survive in China, and …Yeshiva) took the beard and they cut one side, the middle part, one side like a goat, and everyone was going to show how to make fun. And then what they did is told him to go on the other side of the village and to dig a hole. No one had experienced such a tragedy. And when he finished digging the hole they told him to put down the shovel on the side and stand up and to stand up straight, and they took a machine gun and just cut him down. And everybody was just destroyed in two minutes. And this is the first incident that we experienced such a tragedy that confused the Jewish people to lead them like sheep without a shepherd.

AK: Rabbi, let me understand this now. When the Germans first came into town they took all the professional men: the rabbis, the doctors, and teachers and all, took them into a group, and after subjecting them to various indignities they then just had them dig their own grave, shot them and let ‘em fall into the hole. I know this was a terrible sight to see and that you saw this yourself. What else happened? We know there were other instances.

PL: Then the village was panic stricken, panic for the men. Of course, I don’t have to describe the young girls. When the Germans came in t hey demanded. They always demanded. Give me the … which means the gold. Now, how much gold did we have? We gave whatever we had. Then they were looking into the teeth, if you find gold to pull your teeth, and then they caught hostages. They took girls and they did whatever they have to do with them, they says if you don’t get the money we will shoot her. So every soul is precious to us. So we went, they went around and they try to get the families to collect all this money.

I mean incident after incident. As I remember at that time I was rather small in size. I’m big now. At that time I was just like half my size. I was always under my mother’s arm. Then they had another, a play. They called all the men and they lined them up and the Germans went to the gardens. In every garden there was poles. And the poles used to have nails. SO they ripped the poles off the gardens and they formed a line on both sides, and they asked the young people to march through the lines, and everybody holding the pole as soon as they pass through … somebody pull you over just to trick you. People went with blood all over their face. This is part of the ... that people never experienced, that was never written about, and I was even, I omitted this part because I think it is too tragic to write certain things which unfortunately are true.

AK: Well, Rabbi, I know that you’ve made quite a few sessions there. What actually happened later when you were on a march with your folks, your parents, your mother, your brothers. You had an experience there.

PL: Well, after this it didn’t take too long and they wanted all the Juden, the Jews, to be moved into ghettos. And we know what the ghetto means, we know what the ghetto has to be, a choice was given, to go to shtetl or to go to Lida, or go to Vilna. Vilna was too far so some of the people went to Lida, and our family decided to go to shtetl, shtetl which the Polish name is Jetel (sp?) which is about 30 kilometers. And we packed whatever we had, we didn’t have much, and in one room seven souls was given a room to live in the town of … And this is the time from 1941 when we left Galitsia and we moved to the ghetto.

AK: All right, I know that when you got to Jetel (sp?) you had another experience happen there which had quite an effect on your life at a later date.

PL: Yes. In Jetel (sp?) we knew that sooner or later …will come. We lived in a house where half was finished and half was not finished. The man and the woman lived in one room and we lived seven souls in the other room. We slept on the floor, very little food, etc., etc., and the depravity is beyond imagination. The only thing what I can tell you is this. In the unfinished house, the other part of the house, there was just a roof and there was a cellar. The father and children and mother said one day if something happens we have no escape over here. Especially we were right next door to the ghetto gates and the ghetto gates are watched constantly. So we build from the cellar a cave and the only thing that has to be done was this, that one person must cover the cave. But he cannot cover the cave from the inside he has to cover the cave from the outside. And since I was the firstborn son therefore the responsibility was on me to cover the cave. And …it was the day that I had diarrhea. That night … I couldn’t sleep. And I was running back and forth, back and forth, and I realized, I looked out the window, and I see that at every post there was a German. I woke up the family. “Get up, the ghetto is surrounded!” And in no time the flares were running up over the ghetto, an announcement was made “Get dressed! Get dressed! Go to the marketplace!” Then we heard this terrible sound. So everybody went into the cave, including myself, and we waited until sunrise. Sunrise we heard another announcement. From the cave we heard “Whoever’s going to be found chicken or meat will be shot”. At that time one of our Polish friends brought us a piece of chicken for shabbas that we didn’t see for weeks and months, and now she has to bring in a piece of chicken, not a piece of chicken but a chicken…

But anyway it was a chicken. So my mother and I went out from the cave to hide t he chicken. While I went out a German saw me. So I was at that time able to run back into the house, take Mother back into the cave, cover the cave, and when the German says “What are you doing here, you so and so?”, which I don’t; want to mention. Well I says “I’m looking, I got lost. I don’t know where to go.” “Go over there with the rest of the Jews!” So I says “Okay, I’m going.” And as small as I was I was running otherwise they would kill me there. So I went in the marketplace and there in the marketplace there was a scene beyond imagination. And this is the most tragic thing I can describe to you, and I can describe this for hours, for minutes, there’s no end to the description. I see thousands upon thousands of people gathered in the marketplace surrounded by Germans, Lithuanians, Polish, all of them drunk, all of them with bayonets, all of them shooting into the people, in such a stage that I never experienced before. And so in front of me a little baby, the Lithuanian took a little baby on the bayonet, pushed it though, and give it a turn and tossed it over to the other people. I couldn’t believe with my eyes what I see. And then unfortunately the pushing, I couldn’t believe it. What I did see is an elderly couple standing and dancing. And God Almighty, I could not imagine what went on in their minds until I understood that they went off their minds right then and there, which I could not picture myself such a tragic moment. That’s when the thousand upon thousands of people in the marketplace, I saw that the S.S. men stands in the front and he makes with a finger like this, to the right, to the left, whatever, I right away understood that the Judenrat made an announcement that whoever has any certificates that are nurses, carpenters, doctors, shoemakers, druggist, these people will show this to the S.S. man. Children, elderly, just with one little push of the finger, and they all went. Thousands upon thousands went, and I was pushed, and I was looking if my family was there in the cave that I hid them was found. Thank God, I will be most happy to die if they are alive.

And then the people diminished to less than a thousand. I was standing there. I had nothing to lose. I saw a lady standing with two children, and these two children were hanging on to the lady. Of course on the side was her husband and I went over to them and said “Would you take me as your son?” They said “We have our own two children, you can be the third one. We have nothing to lose, you can go along with us. If you see that they take us go after us. If you see that they push us to death you go away from us. And I said “what kind of certificate you have?” “Well, I have a certificate that I am a pharmacist.” “A pharmacist, very good, you should push up front because they need pharmacists.” And I went with this woman and went over to the S.S. and she showed him the certificate and tank God, the two girls that were with this lady and the man, and myself, were saved. By the way, the girl happens to be my wife now. She’s here in the audience. This is the first part of the massacre that took place in the shtetl, and then of course I was with the people that was put to the left which means to life. On the right, on the other side whatever, were the group of people. And then I looked up to the window where our house was, and unfortunately I saw four people lying dead in front of the house. I thought that was the family, that they found the cave, that they shoot them right then and there, why should they bring them to this. And when I saw this I thinked it and when I thinked it ,I don’t know when, how long, what, when I opened my eyes my mother was standing next to me. That was the time when my aunt also went to where the cave was, she was safe, and she went to look for me, she came and she found me lying there. And that’s how the first massacre was survived in the shtetl. But that’s not the end of it.

Side Two

AK: Rabbi, I know you just got through telling us one of the incidents pertaining to your experience and, of course, we’re very happy that part of the incident that we know was for the good because your good wife is here with you so we know that she made it through all these terrible circumstances. What happened then, Rabbi?

PL: Then, of course, we heard the terrible news that this was taking place all over the ghettos, that massacres keeps on going on, and sooner or later there will be what we call Judenrait (sp?), which means the extinction of Jews, like … has prophesized that in 1943 a Jew can be seen only on the screen. And the days went in sadness, the tragedy, the fear was always there, and the father worked, got a job at forced labor at a mill, a flour mill. We were now at the ebb was low, the food, the morale. And unfortunately the father worked in the flour mill for a couple of months he was not allowed to take anything. Later on, the Polish man he had mercy sand pity upon him, and told him okay you can take a couple of pounds of flour a week, which was very helpful to the family for survival. And then, lo and behold, the day approaches now, the second massacre, the Judenrait (sp?) which means the extinction of all the Jews. At this time we did not sleep in the same cave but we did build a cave together where my grandfather.. And we stayed in the cave for four days, for four days. And we were waiting because the father got caught in the place where he was working and he was not able to come back into the ghetto because the ghetto was at that time surrounded by the Germans during the day. So we’re waiting in the cave for four days. And on the end of the fourth day the Pollacks found us. How did they found us? ‘Cause they went to rob all the homes. And they moved away all the furniture. And the cave where we were sitting the entrance was through a closet. And you push up the bottom part of the closet up and you go into the cave, and when you push it down it’s closed. But when you move away the closet the cave becomes empty. So when they take away the closet it opens the cave and they take a look, and they say “There must be Jews around here”, And at that time my grandfather was coughing, he was at the age of eighty-something so he was coughing and they heard the cough, and sure enough they brought the Germans and they took us off the cave.

Now the scene there is to live four days without proper food, without water, you can’t go out, everything you have to do is there, right then and there, and unfortunately I was blinded at that time because when you hit the sun and you are in the dark for four days, when they pulled us out from the cave I couldn’t see anything. I walked like a blind man. And the children, it’s like we were drunk and couldn’t find ourselves. And of course in a few minutes we did find ourself, they were on top of our heads, and right away “What kind of shmook (sp?) do you have?” Same question, where’s the gold, and this, and they looked. Anyway, to make the story very short here starts a new chapter. The chapter is where my mother said to us “…” which means “If you can save yourself you’re on your own”. Whatever money, we each had a few dollars, each and every one, was divided equally, someday maybe when you need a piece of bread maybe you can buy yourself.

At that time my brother Robert was taken, I mean, he left us, and he went, in Europe, there’s

AK: No bathrooms.

PL: So where do you go?

AK: The outhouse.

PL: Where’s the outhouse, right next door to the house but if you go into the outhouse they find you right away. So he didn’t go to the outhouse. He went down, you know where down is?

AK: Right into it.

PL: Right into it. And that’s the way he was able to survive for the next couple of hours ‘til they went away. So he was there. I, my mother said to me, you have to go and find father, maybe father’s still alive in order to get saved over here. But I heard the Germans saying all the remnants that are being caught now are being gathered in the movie house. All of them go to the movie house. So I went to look for Father, and I went with my little coat, and as pale as I was, not eating, people looked at me and they recognized me right away as the little Jewish boy. And they pointed that out here goes a Jew. But I run fast through this to get to my destination where the father was, and lo and behold, a black door jumped from the place that almost tear me to pieces. And I could not get into where Father was, and they realized the barking of the dog and they send over a German, which was not really a German, it was a Polish German, he speak to me in Polish “…” “Where are you from?” I said “What do you mean, I’m from here, and for the first time in my life I told him my real name, Lazowski, which is a Polish name, so he turned around and said “You’re not Jewish, are you?” And while I was able to say one word he gave me such a smack in the face that my face turned the other way and I wet my pants. That’s the first time in my life that I almost lost a …which is a terrible thing to say, and he grabbed me by the collar and he marched me back to the movie house where the rest of the Jews were gathered.

There was a scene which is unfortunately they gathered all the Jews which were brought and to make the story very short because I know to describe the scene in the movie house - you can’t go out for days without food, no bathhouse, etc. I want you to know only two children survived. And this is written in the book because Mother told me that she would like very much I should jump from the third floor window, and the window was …She gave me a chair and knocked the window, and I said “Mother, if I go you go with me?” and she said “How can I jump three floors from the top with a little baby. And unfortunately there was a boy with me also that was an orphan, and she pushed me out of the window and I felt in the window … you know what … means? It means certain grass that if you

AK: thistles, spurs, poison ivy.

PL: Poison Ivy. In no minutes your hands are blown up like this. But you see, what the heck you do. If you pick up your head the Germans are right there watching the way the Jews are being packed on the truck like herring in a barrel. And he watches and observes. And I’m right there. And jumping from a third floor even a deaf man could hear a fall. He was standing there. Maybe at that time God pulled away his hearing, or . whatever it is. Anyway the boy was flying after me, and we ran back into the ghetto to take a look if there were any Jews and I was trying to find Father, maybe, maybe.

As I was crossing the street they spotted me again and from the second floor there was drinking and there was merrymaking and the Germans dancing to see the last Jew being evacuated and killed in the street. From the second floor someone was holding a bottle of whisky and he three it flesh to my ear and the bottle shattered on the street, and everybody looked and he said “Hey look, there’s two Jews there”. We ran back to the ghetto and the only thing what saved us, the Polish people grabbing, robbing everything, beds, furniture and all this. And we went over there and said the only way to survive here is help them to rob, give them help with the furniture. We lowered down our heads and said “Can we help you?”. And they said “By all means, help us carry.” And we could see the Germans. As soon as we went out of the ghetto and we helped them to carry the furniture we took the “seckle” and the “peckle” in our hands which means we left them with the furniture and we ran to Dvoritz (sp?). Now what was Dvoritz (sp?)? Dvoritz (sp?) was a place, was another ghetto where there was a big airfield. And a lot of Jews were there and I was hoping maybe the Father is there, maybe my brother is there. Okay, so we’re running from one fire to the next fire. Thirty miles of, forty miles, forty kilometers to Dvoritz (sp?). Now in Dvoritz (sp?), unfortunately, uh, it is such a tragedy to tell you. The people, the Polish people went over and looked you over, what kind of shoes you have, they say “take off your shoes”. If you have a coat they say “take off your coat”. Everything that you had. “Did you have any money?” We said “We don’t have any money.” The boy that went with me he had a pair of new shoes, they took off his shoes. By the way he was the age at that time, I was eleven at that time he was ten and a half. And then the darkness approaches and we had to sleep in the woods.

And I’ll tell you I could not picture before me my Mother, not knowing where to go, and constantly up and make sure that I know the direction where I’m going. And I used to go about two hundred, two hundred fifty feet away from the main road because it was corn time and we used to go over the corn. People shouldn’t see me on the main road because they used to take the Jews and bring them back to the ghetto, bring them back to be destroyed.

In the morning we got up in the woods. I want you to know the boy says “I’m not going back I’m going back to …and I’m going back to … and I’m gonna find my family. I says “You know, you have no family any more. Come with me.” And he says “No, I’m going back” and he went by himself back and I was thinking he was going to follow me. I passed about fifty feet and I realized that the boy meant what he said. I went back to him, running back, and I took him and I gave him a smack in the face and said “If you’re not gonna go with me you’re gonna be killed right away”. I want you to know the boy is alive today and he’s in Canada, and that’s how this boy was saved to go to Dvoritz (sp?) with me, he wanted to go back. And I’m in correspondence with him as well. Anyway we went to Dvoritz (sp?) crossing, ‘til we get to Dvoritz (sp?) for hours I can tell you the way. We were hungry. For days we didn’t eat. And I went over to somebody and asked what to eat. You know what rossel (sp?) is? He says “I’ll make you potatoes with rossel (sp?) You know what I’m talking about?

“Til we get to Dvoritz (sp?). We came to Dvoritz (sp?) and we had to go under the barbed wires again. Guess who’s standing next to the barbed wire? My brother. He was sitting there and here starts a new chapter how two orphan boys not finding anybody lives, we lived in the room with other poor orphans, sleeping on the floor, nothing, no pillow, nothing whatsoever, just the floor. No shirt to change, no undershirt, no socks, nobody to care and we were proud. The days we were hungry we didn’t ask for a piece of bread. That’s the way we were taught. And unfortunately in those days you were so much ashamed you would rather die than ask for a piece of bread. And for weeks there in Dvoritz (sp?) we were trying to find out if Father is alive. And then we heard about the underground. The day came that I found out my uncle is alive, and that my aunt is alive. And they’re trying to do everything possible to save us. We prayed every day that the day may come. And lo and behold one day a man from about 75 came in and he asked for the boys, the Lazowski boys from our town. “I come to take you to your Father. And here starts a new chapter in Dvoritz (sp?). We hardly were able to walk and we came to the woods to live in the underground for two and a half years.

This story is hardly written in the book because I didn’t want to go into too much in detail to describe certain things but the way they cross to come into the woods it’s hours and hours of detail. How much time do we have?

AK: I realize Rabbi that we have more or less dedicated almost all of this time to your experiences in Europe, and while at times there may have been a little distressing you found them enlightening. The Rabbi has also written quite a few articles concerning his life in later years in a book called Faith and Destiny, and he has compiled this with quite a bit of information, and if anyone should want to further any knowledge on this particular book, it’s available at the Beth Hillel Synagogue.

However, Rabbi, I would like to get along and find out how it was you got to come to America.

PL: You mean skipping two and a half years being in the woods without mentioning one word? Below forty degrees, in cold, in pain, in sorrow, in agony? And you want to leave this out? Fine

AK: You know …

PL: Well, this chapter of two and a half years in the woods is indeed very tragic. I think to survive this kind of ordeal is beyond description. It’s a miracle from Almighty God that some people are able to survive. And I want to mention one thing. The hardest thing in the world to side is when somebody freezes to death. The agony, the pain, the limbs don’t belong to you. The mind works but you cannot live. Today you’re talking about cancer. In those days the worst tragedy was when somebody dies out of cold. And to live in the woods forty below, thirty-five below zero can kill anybody. Without a house, and so on. I will just skip this chapter. I just want you to think about this. These two and a half years in the woods which I did not mention at all and I’m going to answer Mr. Kent’s question.

Now the question is regards when I come to the United States, yes.

AK: What were the details?

PL: Well, first of all, after the war was over we Jews realized that the only salvation for the Jews was to go to … And we don’t want our children to repeat the same thing what we experienced. And we try the hardest to leave Russia. At that time there was announcement that anybody who was born of Polish land may return to Poland. Which means we came right away to Lodz. And from Lodz we heard there’s a way to get to the American side in order to be in a D.P. camp. At that time the UNRA, the United Nations Rehabilitation Administration, took care of a lot of people. And then through contact with the proper personnel we were able to go over the border to Czechoslovakia to Austria. And we came to Austria during the time where the Russians occupied Vienna at that time but we, thank God, landed in Bachetstan (sp?). Bachetstan (sp?) is one of the most beautiful places in the world to visit. I don’t say you should go to visit Austria. I myself don’t like to go on this land but it is the place where Hitler used to come for his enjoyment and so on. Anyway, there was five hotels of Jews where we stayed there for two years ‘til we were ready to go to Israel. Unfortunate or not we found out that my father has two sisters plus a brother in the United States that left before the war and they insisted that we should come to the United States. There was a big to do. I never wanted to go to the United States but you know you have to respect Father’s wishes, and when I remember our discussion, my brother and I said “We are going to fight for Israel.” And Father said “You did a lot of fighting in your life. You come to the United States and study.” And that’s how we ended up in the United States in 1948. And of course the uncle who brought us over I made sure to pay him for the tickets because he paid for the ship, and we tried every possible way to get along, worked very hard. I went to school at night because I didn’t know any English yet. I went to school at night at Thomas Jefferson High School the first year and then when I graduated in another half a year I was accepted at Yeshiva University and Brooklyn College to study simultaneously where I wanted to study for the rabbinate.

And here starting a chapter in life. You know how fortunately enough I was always looking for the family Rabinowitz that saved my life, you remember I told you a story before, yes? And lo and behold I was going to Yeshiva University and all my boy friends were getting married and I was studying and they invite me to the weddings, and I go to one wedding, and I usually when I go to wedding I used to find a lot of … you know what a … is? (Laughter) Good. So I used to ask them you know Abraham Rabinowitz? And suddenly I sit down next to a young lady that goes to Brooklyn College and I didn’t ask her the question because I was sick and tired of asking, I wasn’t sure of this. And then she said “Where you come from?” And I said … by the name of Galtisia and from Lida … And she says “I have a girlfriend that lives in Hartford, Connecticut and …Go ahead, tell me the story. Excuse me, I ‘m going to interpret this situation once more in English. Well, I was sitting at the table and didn’t ask this young lady and asked her where she’s going to college, and she asked me where did I come from, and I told her that I come from this town that I just explained to you and she says “You know I have a girlfriend that lives in Hartford, Connecticut and she told me a story they’re looking for a boy that comes from your part.” And I say “What’s the name of the family?” She says “The name of the family is Rabinowitz” I says “I’m the boy!” (Laughter) And at that time I went downstairs and called the family, found out their address, their telephone number downstairs and I called up and the next day I was there to greet the family. And I want you to know I didn’t see them since. This happened in 1941, I came over here it was 1952 and the time I found out I think. I saw the woman only once. And my cousin took me from New York to go to see the family I said to him “They still live on Kent Street, they still live on Kent Street, and when I approached somebody was standing there next to the house and I said to Mr. Kaplan, my cousin “That is the lady that saved me eleven years ago. That shows you one thing. You see once somebody that means something, you shall always remember. Yes, Mr. Kent?

AK: Rabbi, I’ll tell ya, it’s really fascinating because it’s almost one of those tales that would normally be told by Ripley. But needless to say once you located Miss Rabinowitz at that time, now Mrs. Lazowski, I know you became a visitor to the City of Hartford.

Now I’d like you to lead on and tell the audience how you came to become affiliated with the coming Beth Shalom Synagogue on Cornwall Street.

PL: Okay. When I graduated from the Teacher’s Institute and I went for Rabbinical. studying for two years in Rabbinical and I was ready to get my ordination, a friend of mine worked in the office, He says “You know, there’s a principal job open in Hartford, Connecticut.” I says “How can I leave now?” and he says “Don’t worry. Go to Rabbi Belkin and talk to him. You can study by yourself to fulfill the rabbinate and Rabbi Paleyev will give you okay to five you … And I always admired Rabbi Paleyev. He used to come from our, he was a very important rabbi at Yeshiva University so I went over to him and I says “Rebbe, I want to ask you a question, and whatever decision … in Hartford, Connecticut. I mean, excuse me, let’s go back there. “Do you know that the family who saved me (because he knew the story about the family that saved me) and also that I went with this young lady. Now what shall I do? Shall I accept the position or shall I go to study?” And he says “Name the position. You come, we’ll give you your ordination.” And at that time Rabbi Arbiter came over and he looked me over from the top to the bottom and he said “You come to Hartford, Connecticut and interview by certain people”. And I tell you I was interviewed by certain people and they send me a contract. And I neglected to sign the contract. I didn’t know what to do. So I went over to Rabbi Heller, which is a cousin, maybe you know Rabbi Heller, he’s one of the most famous rabbis in the Flatbush Jewish Center that was in the Conservative Rabbis. I says “I don’t want to go to Hartford, Connecticut…I’m not ready for marriage, I want to study” and all this. He says “Get!” That means go. “Sign the contract!” So I signed away the contract and that’s how I landed in Hartford, Connecticut to be an Educational Director. And then of course, to make the story rather short, it is through the influences of good people that I happen to know. Mr. Kent had a very important role in my becoming rabbi. To tell you the truth my wife never wanted me to be a rabbi. Even though I was a rabbi, I got my ordination before, and she sees it’s not too easy, you have to be very dedicated, and you have to give of yourself to be a rabbi. Tell you the truth about twenty-eight people graduated with me. Of close to thirty rabbis only three remained in the field. As a coincidence I have to tell you a story just for two minutes, I went a couple years ago in visiting the sick in Hartford Hospital. I go to visit on the 6th floor. I see somebody spoke to me in the dark. I take a look. I said it’s a fellow who studied with me in the rabbinate. And …I take a look to him and I says “what are you doing here?” He says “I’m working here”. “You’re working here? What are you doing here? You’re supposed to be a rabbi.” He says “No, I work here as a doctor”. “A doctor? What kind of doctor are you?” “Oh”, he says “I’m taking care of the floor.” “What do you mean taking care of the floor?” “Look, I’m Dr. Chaimedes. I’m taking care”

(Audience recognizes the name immediately)

And this is the fellow we sat together for a number of years studying together. You see incidents like this … but thanks to the Beth Shalom people were very kind to me. They wanted to preach themselves but they helped me in many ways. You know they say “…” and thanks to these people under circumstances I helped them, and they are in a way responsible that I’m now a rabbi for rather a large congregation, a respectable congregation, and during these twenty-two years thank God I have proven myself in many ways to hold the position that I’m holding thanks to these so many good people that I’ve known I nm y life. I’m thankful to them as well as to Almighty God.

AK: Thank you very much Rabbi Lazowski. I know we have not touched on the education that you went through. I also personally know the trials and tribulations that you got up very early in the morning to run to college, to come back in time to teach Hebrew School and conduct classes and teach Hebrew and be a “…” at the Beth Shalom Synagogue. I can only say that you have enriched a great number of lives, those you have educated and those you whom have .. We hope that you will have a lot of strength, … and good healthy years to continue.

I’d like to take this opportunity to thank the Jewish Historical Society of Greater Hartford for the opportunity of interviewing Rabbi Philip Lazowski of the Beth Hillel Synagogue of Bloomfield. My name is Alan Kent, and on this Wednesday night, April the 13th, 1977.

(Applause)

Announcer: Thank you, Rabbi Lazowski and Mr. Kent for this most remarkable story of courage.

Unknown Speaker: Ladies and gentlemen, one minute more. I too want to thank my rabbi and Mr. Kent. I think for all of us this is an unforgettable experience, something that perhaps something that all of us need. I just want to tell you that Mrs. Lazowski, Ruth Lazowski, is here. I think most of you know her. Ruth, please stand up.

(Applause)

And someday too we need to have your story, too. I just wanted to tell you that our annual meeting will be on May 11th, and at that time we’ll have an election of officers but we will also have a speaker, Samuel Kadzow, who is a professor at Trinity College, Professor of History, will speak on “Russian Jewry and Historical Perspectives”. Professor Kadzow has been to Russia many times and I know it’ll be very worthwhile you’re coming. So I want to thank Dr. Waltman for helping, excuse me, I can’t even think anymore. Also I know you’ll enjoy the refreshments, and please take a look at the pictures there. And again thank you, Rabbi Lazowski and Alan Kent.

#150 2t, 2s, 90 mins Interviewee: Lazowski, Rabbi Philip Interviwer: Kent, Alan M. Place: JHSGH meeting, HJCC Date: 4/13/1977 Birthplace: Belitza, Vilna Province, Poland on Yenin R, Born 1930; present age 57; Family, parents, 5 children, 4 boys, one girl. Parents: father- Joseph; nother: Hya Gittel- store keeper. Father- fisherman (employed fishermen) Personal background: 11 years old at beginning of war, 1940. Incidents of Russian- later German occupation. Mother considered capitalist by soviets- father supplied them with fish. Grandfather’s home. The order to go to a ghetto- Szetel; the selection- the Rabinowitz family saves Philip. Living in a cellar cave. Roundup in the movie house; his escape- last time he saw his mother. His flight with another small boy; incidents of terror- meeting with only surviving brother, Rachmiel (Robert). Living in the forest with partisans for 2.5 years. Reunion with Father after War. Lodz, UNRWA, Czechoslovakia, Austria, USA. Education: Before war, private tutors; after war, Austria; USA- high school; Yeshiva Univ; Rabbinical studies, Jewish education. Hartford: Beth Sholom as Ed. Dir; later as Rabbi; then merger with Beth Hillel, Blmfd. Marriage: Ruth Rabinowitz- 3 sons. Author: “Fath & Destiny- story of survival in WWII” Also, Sabbath and holiday observances.