Malley, Solomon_1975/11, Oral History, 1975 - 1975

My name is Irma Malley Gross and I am continuing an interview that I started with my father about a month ago. Today is November 30, 1975 and we are going to continue, daddy, to talk about some of the things you did as a very young man in Hartford. I seem to remember you telling me that you worked in the Hartford Public Library and then at the age of 16 you decided that is was time you got a job in business. How did you happen to get the interview at Sage Allen and fill out the application. Was it when you were running errands from the Public Library? SM: I was going from the Public Library into the office at Charles Hopkins Clark who was the editor of the Courant. He was a member of the board of the Hartford Public Library. IM: I see. And you told him you wanted to get a job? SM: I told him I wanted to get a job in the retail merchandising field. IM: And what did he suggest? SM: And he suggested that I apply to both stores IM: To which stores? SM: Spatul and Sage Allen IM: So you applied to both of them? SM: No I didn’t. I only applied to Sage Allen Company. IM: I see. And who interviewed you when you went there? SM: Clifford O. Moore. A very prominent person who started in as a young man and became successful and would be the manager of Sage Allen Companies. IM: I see. And he must have liked you? SM: As I conversed with Mr. Moore and when he realized that my parents were in the retail business and I had a retail merchandising background he felt that I would make a IM: You would make a good employee for him? SM: I would prove to be a value to Sage Allen Company. IM: And then where did he place you? SM: I was interested in textiles at the time and so he decided to put me into the IM: The piece goods department? SM: Piece goods department IM: That’s right. I’ve heard many times about the piece goods department. You were there from 1903 until you went to war SM: After the, shortly after the First World War, 1918. No wait a minute IM: In other words you worked in Sage Allen in the piece goods department until the First World War and then you went to war and then after that you left? Is that correct? SM: I left Sage Allen. IM: Right. Now when you were in Sage Allen you told me you managed the department and you did inventory but you also did something else didn’t you. Didn’t you do buying? SM: I was a buyer. IM: Oh you were the buyer? SM: I merchandised in two of the textiles. IM: Did you travel to New York? SM: Oh, I went to New York about every two or three months. IM: Every two or three months. And when you went there where did you go? Was there an office? SM: Sage Allen Company was part of the dry goods alliance which had a membership of about 12 or 15 large department stores throughout southern New England. IM: And where was their office? SM: The office was at 75 Spring Street. IM: And then they had some kind of a board I remember you telling me and you were active in that? SM: Each of the divisions of the department store had representatives at the office. There was the department that took care of the ready to wear. And there was the department that took care of the textiles. And the department that took care of the notions. IM: I see. Well didn’t you tell me at one point that you were chairman of a group there? SM: Oh yes. With the number of stores that were in the organization there were committees and we had a textile committee which I was a chairman of and it was our business to visit the various textile offices organizations in New York and in the textile field to select the merchandise to be resold at the store. IM: Very good. Daddy, I seem to remember you telling is many times about all the famous people, maybe they weren’t terribly famous, but sort of famous who came in to Sage Allen to shop, a lot of very important people. Who were some of them that you remember very well? SM: Harriet Beecher Stowe IM: And who else? Kathryn Hepburn’s mother? SM: Mrs. Thomas M. Hepburn IM: Ya. And Who else? Members of the famous Morgan family SM: No that was too long… The Goodwins IM: Oh the Goodwin Family SM: The Goodwin family which was one of Hartford’s more famous families. IM: In other words you had very prominent people who came into Sage Allen? SM: Mrs. Samuel Clemens IM: That was Mark Twain’s wife? SM: Mark Twain IM: That’s very interesting. And I seem to recall that some of them became very friendly with you and they followed you, they came and were your customers, is that right? SM: Ya. IM: And then what happened? SM: Then a friend of mine name Dana Merriman and I decided that we should have an organization with the purpose of discussing the principal problem facing the general public IM: In Hartford? SM: In Hartford, Connecticut IM: So what did you do? SM: So we learned about the Kofsmaus Club which was held at 720 Main Street in Hartford. IM: That was near where? SM: That was near the Hartford Times office. About several hundred feet away from local city hall. IM: This was a club or a building? SM: A building IM: Owned by whom? SM: Miss Emily Morgan IM: Oh, she was from the famous Morgan Family? SM: She was a cousin of Mr. Morgan. IM: Oh, I see SM: And we learned that she was the owner of the building and we went over there and we talked with her and told her what our purpose was in mind and when she realized how serious and how necessary it was for the general public to understand about the problems that faced them that they were faced with IM: In other words the whole community? SM: The whole community that she realized it was most important we invite, organize a club for the purpose of having the prominent leaders of our community who knew all about the problems we wanted to discuss and try to solve come there and present them before the organization. IM: I see. And what did you call this club? SM: Political Study Club of Hartford. IM: So you and Mr. Merriman were the co-founders of this and you brought speakers and they talked about the problems SM: And we had the cooperation of both the faculty of Trinity College and the Hartford Theological Seminary. IM: And you did this as a young boy of about 21 or 22, is that right? SM: Just about in my early 20s. IM: I think that is very good. I think you were a very enterprising young man to take an interest in your community at that time. SM: Well this might interest you to know that I went to work at the library at 15 and there at the library met most all these people and knew them. IM: Oh you knew of these people very well? SM: And that I attended the meetings at the Court of Common Council every Monday night at the old City Hall in Hartford. IM: What’s the Court of Common Council? SM: The Court of Common Council was the legislative organization which made the laws IM: Is that like our City Council? SM: Ya. Like your City Council. IM: And you used to go to their meetings all the time? SM: All the time IM: So you were very much interest in the community? SM: In addition to that remember that next to me where I lived was one of the lead Democratic leaders of the City of Hartford. IM: What was his name? SM: His name was Joseph Vail, well-known throughout the state. IM: And think didn’t he use your services when you were a very young boy? Didn’t you sort of help him a little bit? SM: Yes, his brother Robert Emmett Vail and I would have to personally go to the homes of all these voters to notify them about the caucus date and encourage them to be very prompt and vote at the caucus for the nominees and the questions that were going to be presented after election day. IM: How old were you about that time? SM: About 15. IM: About 15. Okay. I want to get back to talking more about some of the organizations that you were interest in besides the political study group. I hear that you were interested in helping the lady suffragettes? SM: Yes I was interested in their original group started the movement for equal right for women and they wanted a place to present their problems to the general public. IM: They did meet, didn’t they? SM: They came to our political study club on Main Street in Hartford IM: So, in other words your group was a forum for them? SM: We get them and they had an opportunity to present the problems of womens suffrage to the city of Hartford. IM: Who was the most prominent woman in this whole movement? You can’t remember the woman who originally started, but then the one who came in afterwards SM: Then came Mrs. Hepburn and Mrs. Menna IM: Mrs. Thomas Hepburn, this is the famous Kathryn Hepburn’s mother? SM: Ya. IM: So you and she were quite friendly? SM: Oh very. IM: You were very good friends? SM: Oh sure. Her husband was a doctor, you know? IM: Yes, I know he was. But I’ve heard you speak of her so many times SM: I wish some more of the people were alive to tell you about how well she knew me. My whole trouble was that she would come into the store and I couldn’t spare the time then because people were there to be waited on. It was business first. IM: You mean all these prominent people came in and wanted to chat SM: Chat, and I didn’t have the time for them. I had to make a living first. IM: Right. Now while you were interested in the community affairs I think you still had a pretty close tie to your Judaism? SM: Yes, so with the assistance of the late Saul Berman we organized the YMHA IM: What was the purpose of starting a YMHA? SM: The purpose was to bring the Jewish young men of Hartford together IM: For the purpose of? SM: For the purpose of discussing the problems of the Jews in Greater Hartford. IM: Well, as I understand it, it was for intellectual purposes as well as SM: Social and IM: Oh that was nice. So all in the spirit of Judaism they could meet and there were recreational programs for them? SM: There was. They played games together IM: I see. That’s very interesting. So I seem to recall something else, daddy. You talked about the rabbi if the Reform Temple being SM: Harry Edelson IM: Rabbi Edelson. Tell me about your relationship with Rabbi Edelson? SM: Well, Rabbi Edelson was, I won’t tell you he was a bachelor. IM: Well that’s all right we can forgive him for that. SM: And he was interested, of course, in the problems that we were trying to solve. He felt that was part of religion and he was practical and he appreciate how unselfish and how loyal we were to our race of people in trying to solve both the social and economic problems they were faced with. IM: You mean because many of them were immigrants and because this is a new land? So what did you actually do? You did some specific things with him and for him? I seem to remember you going to the prisons. SM: Oh yes indeed. IM: Tell us about that? SM: Rabbi Edelson appointed me to go down to meet with the Jewish men who were confined, I don’t call them criminals. IM: No, they were prisoners though. SM: to the state prison IM: Where was that located, in Wethersfield? SM: That was in Wethersfield. IM: It was then? So you would go down and talk with the SM: As a Sunday school teacher. IM: I see, as a Sunday school teacher. SM: So we would read from the bible and then discuss Jewish problems. IM: Did you discuss any of their own personal problem? SM: The purpose was not to make them know of where they were but to try to rebuild their morality and understanding so that when they did leave the institution they would be reformed and morally established so they could come out in the public and live normal lives. IM: That was excellent. About how many Jewish prisoners were there? I mean, I’m sure it was a small percentage. SM: In comparison to the group their I would say there was about 15 from all over the state of Connecticut. IM: And you worked with one prisoner did you? SM: No I worked with them as a Sabbath school teacher. IM: I see. What was it once a week? SM: Every Sunday. IM: Every Sunday. I see, that was interesting. Did you do anything else with Rabbi Edelson? Were there any other activities? Any other organizations that he was active in? SM: I don’t recall any. IM: I see to recall you telling me that you once president of an organization that was the forerunner of today’s B’nai Brith, do want to tell us about that ? That was called what? SM: The Free Sons of Israel. IM: The Free Sons of Israel. And you were president when you were in your mid 20s? and what was the purpose of this group, what did it do? SM: The purpose of the group was to discuss the local Jewish problems and to assist socially IN: Is see. In other words, if Jews were being harassed or persecuted SM: And then there were a great many time when some of the members were taken ill that the committee of the lodge would go to visit them to comfort them. IM: A social service type of organization, but it really focused on the Jewish problems of the day? SM: Both the Jewish and international problems. IM: Of you discussed international problems too? SM: It was a national organization IM: Oh, I see it was a national organization SM: There was an organization in Providence IM: Oh, I didn’t know that. Were there all German Jews in this? SM: The original group of membership were the first Jews that settled in Hartford IM: And they were the German Jews that settled in Hartford? I remember you telling me that there was quite a distinction between the various ethnic groups. In other words the German Jews were kind of separate from the Polish Jews and the Polish Jews were separate from the Lithuanian. I think it might be interesting for you to tell us again how the Polish and Lithuanian Jews finally got together. SM: There was a touch of rivalry between the Lithuanians and the Polish Jews. The Polish Jews originally settled in Hartford earlier than the Lithuanian Jews. And they had a very powerful leader known as Nathan Kempner and he was recognized, not only ion the city but in the state. IM: Why? SM: Because he had taken such great interest in both local, state and national, international Jewish problems. IM: What was he, a lawyer? SM: No, he a now a lawyer, his son’s a lawyer. But he was an English Jew whose heart and soul was in the strength and progress of the Jewish nation. IM: Was he a businessman? SM: He originally started a prominent shoe store on Main Street in Hartford and then changed from that to an insurance business. So he became an insurance agent. IM: He became an insurance agent. An it think there is a rather large group of Kempners now still in the insurance business. I think there are daddy. I don’t want to get off the track. We were talking about how Mr. Kempner was so important in this whole movement of bring the Polish and Lithuanians SM: Mr. Kempner was a natural-born organizer IM: What was Mr. Kempner’s most important feat in being an organizer? SM: There were no reading places for the Orthodox Jew. IM: No Orthodox shul in other words? SM: Orthodox shuls in Hartford. And so as time came on it was necessary that a Jewish temple should be constructed in Hartford to bring these Jews together religiously. IM: Now you’re not talking about all Jews you’re talking about the Polish and Lithuanians? And are you telling me Mr. Kempner is the man who brought them together? SM: He was a powerful leader. IM: And he brought them together and then a shul was constructed? SM: A beautiful shul was constructed on Market Street in Hartford. IM: And what was the name of it? SM: The Adas Israel Synagogue IM: And that was in about what, 1900 SM: Yup, just about 1900 IM: The shul was built in 1900 that means that you must have been one of the first young men to have a bar mitzvah in the new shul? Is that right? Do you remember anything about your bar mitzvah? SM: Well, we IM: Did you have a rabbi? SM: Yes, I attended the first Hebrew school in Hartford and Rabbi Cohen was the leader of the shul. IM: He was your Molamed wasn’t he? SM: He was a Molamed. IM: No, I me an was there a rabbi in the shul? SM: We didn’t have that particular time. No rabbi at the time. IM: Just a Hazan SM: Just a Hazan by the name of Mr. Lipman. IM: I see. Okay. What about your speech, did you give one or two speeches? SM: I delivered two addresses that day. One in Hebrew, no Jewish, and the other in English. IM: I see. And then what happened after the bar mitzvah ceremony? SM: Then we went downstairs and had a lovely party. IM: I heard you tell me many times about the lovely singing voice you had. Did you use it in the shul? SM: Indeed I did. The shul was opened up several months afterwards. The Hazan came the Hartford and the Reverend Mr. Koppelman and he was invited to become the Hazan for the shul and so with the encouragement of my dear mommy I became a soprano singer in the choir organized by the Hazan. IM: Now this choir sang when? SM: They sand on Saturdays and the holidays. IM: On all the high holidays. I see did you ever go anywhere else to sing? SM: No but there was another Hazan in Hartford. IM: What was his name, do you remember? SM: Swolsky. He was sent with a prominent lawyer. And he was invited to render services to towns like Middletown and Meriden and Springfield. And so we visited the congregations of those various towns surrounding Hartford. IM: You mean when he was invited to those shuls he took the choir SM: He took the choir along and we performed the services. IM: Well that was very nice. That was a traveling choir then. SM: We were. IM: That’s wonderful. Was this on special occasions? SM: This was on Saturdays and on some of the holidays. IM: I see. Very interesting. Daddy, you talked about the fact that your mother encouraged you to work closely with the choir and I know your mother was an interesting and very important woman in the Hartford community because she spoke English so well she was an interpreter for many people. When did people come to her? What kind of help and advise did they need? SM: Being newcomers to Hartford IM: Into this country SM: Into this country and intro Hartford they ere confronted with social, economic IM: And health problems? SM: and physical problems, health problems. And, of course, they lacked the knowledge of knowing how to solve these problems and so, of course, she became one of the social workers who did her best to solve their problems and give them the information that was needed bring them into normal thinking. IM: And when they called a doctor she would come? SM: When they called in a physician she interpreted their messages to the doctor. IM: I see. That was important. She also did a lot of midwivery as I understand. SM: Very much so. A great many times woman, not because they were careless, but because they were uninformed, ere faced with serious problems at the time of childbirth and so she visited their home and helped to guide them so that they would be able to deliver their children normally. IM: I know that she was present at many, many births and women would call for her. SM: It seemed so, ya. IM: That’s right. And she also was very outspoken. I understand that she would stand and speak in front of public groups about the problems of the day and everyone knew Mrs. Malley, didn’t they? SM: I’ll say they did. IM: I know you’ve told me she worked for a group of women who worked to try to collect money for underprivileged families what did they? They went around SM: They went to the areas where the Jewish people lived and talked with the different people about the necessity of assisting their fellow Jews. IM: I see. So they raised money and they distributed the money too and saw that they had enough food. SM: That was before the United Jewish Charities came into effect. IM: So it was really a local forerunner of the United Jewish SM: That was what it was. IM: That’s very interesting. I know that you have told us very often that you love the theater and Hartford did have a very famous theater at one time. What was it? SM: Pasha’s Theater. IM: Where was it located? SM: Located on Central Row and Prospect Street IM: And there were lots of famous people who came there? SM: Most all of the famous actors and actresses, performers came there because it was between Boston and New York. IM: Do you remember the names of some of those famous people? SM: Maude Adams, of course, I knew her. Richard Mansfield, William Gillette. IM: And then those famous singers from Providence? Cohan SM: George M. Cohans family, hi father and brothers. And Sarah Bernhardt. Wait a minute we got some more there. IM: Well, I know , but in other words we can get the idea that there were some very, very outstanding actors, but did you get in to see these shows? SM: You see when I worked at the public library I used to have to go after the mail through Prospect Street to the post office. And therefore I would stop over at the theater and the stage manager was a friend of mine and he was interested in reading books and I was able to help bring him some of the books without him going to the library. And because of those favors I extended to him he in turn reciprocated by allowing to come on to the stage. IM: He let you be on the state. Were you actually in the production? SM: I became an extra. IM: I see. You mean the famous spear carriers? I see, so you were really were part of the company for a little while. SM: I was the amateur. IM: I see, very good. And then did he give you passes? I seem to remember you telling me that he had given you passes to some of the shows. SM: So I could go up into the balcony and see the play from the balcony. Facing the stage. IM: You must have seem some wonderful shows then? SM: Indeed. Most every one of the IM: Daddy, I remember you telling me that the very famous Sophie Tucker was a resident of Hartford and she grew up there and you’ve told me how she got her start in show business, do you want to tell us now? SM: Yes, her mother and father had a very fine Jewish restaurant on Front Street in Hartford and when the Jewish plays came to Hartford the actors and actresses would come to the Tucker Restaurant. IM: Was it called the Tucker Restaurant? SM: No, the Abuza Restaurant IM: Oh, her family’s name was Abuza? SM: A-b-u-z-a, would come there for their meals. And Sophie, of course, met all these actors and actresses that came to Hartford. IM: Did she work for her parents? SM: She worked for her parents. IM: What was she doing? SM: She helped to wait on the tables. IM: Oh, I see and as waiting on the tables she got to know people? SM: She got to know these people that were in the dramatic field. IM: Did she do any singing? SM: Sophie sang, oh yes. IM: In the restaurant? SM: She did some singing in the restaurant, yes. IM: She did. You mean that’s actually where she got her start? SM: That’s how she got her start there in the restaurant. IM: I see. SM: She was quite some girl. Of course, she was married. You know who she was married to. IM: You were talking about Jewish actors, was there a Jewish theater in Hartford? SM: No Jewish theaters at the time. IM: Then how did these actors come into town? What were they doing? SM: They would come to Hartford and they’d stop at the local hotels and then have their meals at Abuza’s Restaurant. IM: And they put on shows where? SM: At the Footguard Hall. That was where the Governor’s Footguard group had their main headquarters. IM: And thy would perform what, once of twice a year? SM: They would perform several times a year. IM: Several times a year. Did you go to any of those? SM: Hartford was located between New York and Boston and Hartford was a getting off place from New York to Boston. IM: Did you go to any of these plays? SM: Just one or two. I wasn’t quite deeply interested in Yiddish at the time. IM: And you really couldn’t understand it too well? SM: And I didn’t have the time to go to theaters. IM: Did you understand Yiddish? SM: Very much so. IM: Was there any Yiddish spoken in your home? SM: My mother never spoke Yiddish. Just my grandmother did. IM: Your grandmother spoke SM: We would not talk Yiddish to my grandmother. IM: Could she speak English? SM: Ya, she spoke a broken English. IM: Daddy, we are going to go on now and talk a little bit about your business life and before we do I just wanted to discuss with you for a minute the kinds of stores that G. Fox and Sage Allen were. You told me once that they had different kinds of clientele. What did you mean by that? The kinds of people who were their customers. Who shopped in Sage Allen? SM: Well Fox’s catered to the general public. IM: By the general public you mean? SM: Everyone IM: Gentiles…. SM: Gentiles and Jews and we’ll say Catholics and the general elements in a surrounding Hartford. They had utmost confidence in the store because they had the best quality of merchandise at the normal prices. IM: And then who shopped in Sage Allen? SM: Sage Allen and Company was a store similar to Altman’s in New York. IM: Which means that SM: Which means that they catered to families who had large incomes and normal to large incomes. IM: And were these strictly gentile families? SM: And most of them were of the gentile element. IM: I see. Also you have told me at times about your relationship with the Auerbach families. I think that Beatrice Fox Auerbach was about your age, wasn’t she? SM: Yes, and they lived nearby the Second North School when the first school she ever went to was the Second North School. IM: And that is the school you went to? M: I went to the same school. And the principal of the school was a famous historian known as Loma Fiscoti. IM: I heard something very interesting you told me before about how Beatrice came to school. Did she walk or was she driven? SM: As I recall she came in a buggy. IM: In horse and buggy? Someone drove her? SM: Drove her from Ann Street to school. IM: And dropped her off? SM: Dropped her off. And then came after her. She didn’t go to school too long. IM: Where did she go after that? SM: To a private school. IM: So that was the most contact that you had with her was in those early very early days.? SM: And then when I got into the business world I got to know her very well. IM: That’s right. All right. Why don’t we talk about when you got into the business world on your own? What did you do? You formed a company? SM? We formed a company to manufacture womens’ dresses. IM: Called? SM: The Malley Manufacturing Company IM: The Malley Manufacturing Company and did you have partners? SM: Yes, my brother William and Samuel Gold who was the production manager. IM: I remember that. And you made aprons I seem to recall. SM: We made aprons and house frocks. IM: Aprons and house frocks. Did you sell all around New England? Where were your customers? SM: In the beginning we catered to the large department stores throughout New England. IM: Now I forgot to ask you, what year you started? 1919 was it? SM: 1919. IM: 1919 and what year did you close? SM: 1956 IM: That was a long span of time wasn’t it? Did you have a New York office? SM: 1350 Broadway, opposite Macy’s. IM: Did you do a lot of traveling? SM: In the beginning I used to travel from Hartford to Boston and surrounding areas and then to the New York office at 1350 Broadway. IM: You didn’t drive, did you? SM: No I didn’t drive. IM: How did you get to all these places? SM: By train and by bus. IM: At the time were there any other Jewish manufacturing companies in Hartford? SM: Well there was one small one, Benders. Remember Benders? IM: And who else? SM: That’s about all. IM: And Kolodny? SM: And Kolodny IM: Bender and Kolodny were the two other dress manufacturers? About how many employees did you have when you started out? SM: I started out with between 25 and 30 employees. IM: This concludes our interview today on November 30, 1975. This is Irma Malley Gross and I have been interviewing my father Solomon Malley.