Spodick, Esther_1973, Oral History, November 14, 1973

November 14, 1973

I am Emma Cohen and I am about to interview Esther Sherry Spodick for the Jewish Historical Society of Greater Hartford. Esther Spodick, Mrs. Frank Spodick, who came to the United States in the early part of the century remembers something of life in Europe and has many interesting recollections of Hartford. EC: So Esther let’s start now. Tell us where your family came from, who they were and how it felt to be an immigrant. And by the way tell us if you will what year you were born and let’s place everything. ES: I was born in 1896. My mother and I came here in 1907. My father had been here for three years before we joined him. My father’s family were the Sherefshefskys who business was to exploit fishing in two lakes, the Black Lake and the White Lake. EC: Would you tell us ES: Which were leased from the Polish landlords EC: Exactly where did they come from? ES: Where did my father came from? Alshev. Alsheva they called it. EC: Which was in? ES: Which was in Brodescov Gobednia. Like you say the state of Massachusetts. This is Russian Poland and my grandfather would exploit the fishing in these two lakes. He hired Moshiques who did the fishing and who subsequently took the loads to Bresnitovsk and to Warsaw. And this was a weekly occurrence the year round. EC: The Moshiques were peasants? ES: Peasants yes, you can say peasants if you wish. My father as far as economics were concerned, neither my father nor his two brothers who preceded him here by a few years, needed to come away. They could very well have stayed and been in the business but my grandfather did not want them to serve the Czar in the first place and secondly he didn’t want them to eat the traifa they would have to eat. EC: The non-kosher ES: So he sent them to America. Now my father was drafted. He had been in the Yeshiva in Slonik and he was drafted into the service and served the Czar in Finland unfortunately. He was then in the Yeshiva as I said and his parent’s desire was for him become a rabbi, but of course, it never happened because he had to serve the Czar for four years and five months or whatever it was in Finland. And incidentally he had the unique distinction of having become a non-commissioned officer something unheard of for a Jew. My father EM: This was probably back in the 1890s? ES: No this was probably back around 1890 or thereabouts or 1889 or ’88. Something like that. And I know my folks were married in 1895. EC: I see and this was before? ES: And this was before. And then my father came here in 1903 because he was sure to be taken into the army during the Russio-Japanese engagement at that time. But my mother and I stayed behind and joined him as I said later on. When we came here he had already been established here. He tried New York and didn’t like New York City. As soon as he could he came to Hartford where his brother Morris Sherashefsky was. And he bought a grocery store, at least he started a grocery store and nearly three years later when my mother and I came here he was established, he was doing business, and we had a little house of Marder street, which I remember he rented from Balf. EC: Now this was ES: This was 1907 we came here. We came here in 1907. EC: Now what were his brothers doing when he came here? ES: Well his brothers, one brother was in New York and his business was the manufacturing of overalls. And my uncle here in Hartford, my uncle Morris was the gents furnishings store which is where the library is now, 490 Main Street. He had it there for many, many years. And he was already established. EC: You know, to go back to Europe you had mentioned earlier to me that your family had certain leanings and ES: Well, it was known that the Sherashefskys were Yachsom. EC: What does that mean? ES: That means that we were the more cultured group of Jews. EC: I see ES: And we had the reputation and I think that’s true the Sherashefskys are a scholarly outfit including your own grandfather. If you recall. You remember your grandfather. EC: Ya. ES: And I think my father told me the story. I don’t know whether I should include this. That one of our mutual great-great grandfathers was a scribe in Jerusalem in the City of Jerusalem. EC: Yes, I think I vaguely remember hearing something about ES: Yes and it took him nearly two years to get to Jerusalem. And that he wrote it by hand. I think it’s mentioned somewhere. EC: However they were all people in business were they not? ES: Yes, they were in business and my grandfather was very well to do. Very well to do and it was a terrible wrench for them to see my father go to the United States. He had to really escape from being drafted again into the war. EC: And how did he leave Russia? ES: Well, he left in a very round about way because they were drafting people. Especially people who were experienced soldiers. And my father had only been in the service until about 1889 or ’90 and he was sure to be called so he went first, I think he went to Warsaw first. Then to got to Austria, then he crossed over to Germany and from there he took a boat and came to the United States. EC: Did he come with any money? ES: That was in 1903. Yes, he had a little money. I think he had $50 with him and I think his first business was to peddle with jewelry and that was what he did not like. He hated that. So as soon as he could save up a couple dollars he came to Hartford and he started the grocery store. By the time mother and I came here three years later he was established and he got us a little cottage of Marder Street which he rented from the Balf Company. My father, as soon as he got to Hartford, went to night school every single night that he could go. They had a school for foreigners and I remember he mentioned this Alita Clark who was his teacher and who he really loved. And when we came he could speak English pretty well and he taught me. EC: What school did he go to? ES: He went to Brown School at night and it was quite a jaunt my store was on Capen Street and we lived on Marder but he went every night, every single night for years, for five, six years. EC: Now this was already a little bit out of the Jewish section? ES: Well we were entirely in the North End where not very many Jews. And some of my, well the only Jewish friend I had was Millie Gould who has now gone on. And then, of course, I knew the children in school, but I didn’t make very great friends with them. My father always bragged about me and said that when I was here three weeks I could speak as well as any American with a Yankee. But that was paternal pride. We laughed at that but my father was very much interested in education. Oh, I remember a little story about school. EC: What school is this? ES: I went to the Northeast School at that time. It was a Mr. Bracket, the late Mr. Bracket, was the principal. EC: And that’s called the Bracket School today isn’t it? ES: I imagine so. It’s been rebuilt. It was quite an ancient school. I remember going to school with a couple of dictionaries under my arm for fear I would not know the word. But it really didn’t take me too long, I was young, you know. EC: You said around almost nine? ES: Well I was almost eight when I first came here. But then a couple of years later one of the teachers was reading a chapter out of Oliver Twist and when it came to the story of how Fagin was teaching Oliver Twist to be a crook she looked up a said to the class that Jew will get his at the end, don’t you forget it. Well I came home in tears and my father took off his white coat and left the store to my mother and he took me back to school that afternoon and he went to see Mr. Bracket and my father said to him, he told him what had happened, and he said to him is this why we had to come to this country, to a country of freedom to hear anybody say that? Well he called Miss King and Miss King came into the office and she apologized. She said she had no idea that she had said that, but the did remember saying it. And I remembered it very well because if hurt. The kids, you know how they titter. EC: They must have made fun of her. ES: Yes, they tittered. EC: Actually, exactly how did it feel, for instance perhaps you could even tell us a little bit about the trip across and how did it feel to be an immigrant not knowing the language at all? ES: Well, I was pretty young and my folks doted on me. I don’t remember that I was exposed to any hardship certainly. When we got here we were quite comfortable. We weren’t rich, but we were comfortable, we had a nice little home, with a nice little garden and as I look back upon it I think I had a very lovely childhood. I don’t remember feeling like an immigrant, really. It wasn’t until this episode with Miss King and the Jew Fagin that I felt that felt being an alien. You know that I felt like I was an alien. EC: Did you get any special instruction in the language for instance, in English? ES: No special instruction. The only instruction I heard from my father. EC: Oh, he did help you? ES: Oh, yes. We started reading the day I got here and EC: Had you gone to school in Russia and Poland? ES: No. EC: Not at all? ES: Well, I had special instruction. I had a Russian teacher and a Hebrew teacher. And I remember some Hebrew From them and some Russian from them but not very much because I didn’t practice it. But when I came here my father got the appropriate books, you know for me to learn the language and it didn’t seem to be very hard for me to learn it. Because, of course, Hebrew and Yiddish and Russian I really could understand and I think once you’ve been exposed to other languages, a new language is easier for you. And then, of course, I went to school here, and to high school. and was married in 1927, in 1923, of dear my son was born in 1927. EC: That was an important year? ES: That’s why EC: Let us go back. What do you remember of the Jewish community itself in those early years? Well any parts of ES: Well I remember this. I remember that as soon as I was old enough to go anywhere by myself I joined a Zionist organization. It was called the Roses of Sharon. EC: Really? ES: And our director or our leader was George Cohen, the late Dr. George Cohen. And we were studying about Zionist and about Jewish culture in general. And then we would have meetings at the, oh dear, that was a place on Pleasant Street EC: On Winthrop Street was it? ES: Pleasant Street. EC: Pleasant Street. Was it the Zionist Home? ES: Yes. We would have weekly meetings. And I think that same group eventually became the Hadassah in Hartford. EC: Do you remember anything about the beginnings of Hadassah in Hartford? You were probably still quite young at the time. ES: I don’t remember the very early beginnings of Hadassah. But I think it was after the Roses of Sharon. Having joined the Roses of Sharon that Hadassah was created. And I know when I was married in 1923 and went to live in Washington they had just started a chapter of Hadassah. EC: I think it was started in 1914 somewhere in that area. Let me ask you this. What did Zionism mean in your own family as far back as you can remember? ES: Well, it was the hope to go back to the land where we sprang from. The hope to have a land of our own. And, of course, everyone sang Hatikvah. And that expresses it very very well a longing to return to the land of our fathers. EC: But Zionism was a part of your home life? ES: Absolutely. My father was a Zionist as far back as I can recall. And when the ZOA was organized here he was a very much a member. And of course I remember in the early years when we had the big rallies and Weitzman was here. EC: You do remember those? ES: And Stephen Weiss was here and I remember a funny thing. Stephen Weiss came here with Weitzman, I think, EC: Probably ES: And Ida Yudowich, who was a singer in this community, and I was her accompanist, was going to do, first of all Hatikvah, then the Star Spangled Banner, and then she was going to do a solo. And what did she choose for a solo, but the Holy City, by Sullivan. Because it, you know, Jerusalem, Jerusalem. EC: Yes. ES: Anyway, in that song, I saw the Holy city and the star, it would have said the star of Jesus, and she changed it to the Star of David. And she thought that would make it kosher. She sang magnificently. At the end of the song when it was time to go home Rabbi Weiss got after us and said young ladies do you know what you have just done? We sang a Christian song. It was hysterical. But we really laughed about it. EC: Of course in a way didn’t that show, I mean, unfortunately the lack of knowledge that young Jews had? ES: Right, you are so right. You are so right. We thought by changing the terminology that that made it right but it certainly was wrong. But there wasn’t very great general information about Jewishness. I found in the early years that many Jews were very anxious to forget their culture. EC: They were? ES: Absolutely. They wanted to drop it. They wanted to become thoroughly Americanized and forget all about any other culture. EC: Now did you have any special Jewish education in this country? ES: Yes. I had a Hebrew teacher, he was a Frenchman. His name was Mr. Aragoff. And he came to give us lessons, Rose and me. My cousin Rose and me, oh, for a couple of years. As long as he was here. I didn’t go to any institution to learn because there weren’t any. EC: Well the Talmud Torah you did not go to that? ES: No, I didn’t go to Talmud Torah. But I had a little bit, I remembered a little bit of my Hebrew but he gave us a more modern Hebrew training than I had known. He would give us grammar if you please and vocabulary. In Europe they taught you Hebrew, you know starting with Genesis, Foratious, Boro, you know? And translate the words but he really gave us a more scientific approach to Hebrew. Not that I know much of it now. It was a long time ago. EC: Was your family totally involved in synagogue life? ES: Well we belonged to Shara Tera and we always the High Holy Days we would go to Winthrop Street where Shara Tera was. EC: But did your father and mother, what did they observe by the way? ES: Well my mother was 100% kosher. She observed all the rituals and for many years for as long as she lived after my father died we lived together and she was always very fussy about her kasherus. My husband came from a very orthodox background. He was born in Long Island and they were a large family . There were seven children. And my father-in-law had one of these little general stores and he bought a big house for the family and I recall that my mother-in-law had a miklica kitchen and fleshica kitchen and that she had a special room upstairs for her Passover dishes. They were terribly, terribly fussy. EC: They were really frum? But in terms of observing the sabbath your own family ES: No, we, my father worked on the sabbath and I remember going to England after my mother died, my aunt was still living and I went there and during tea on shabbat some of the members of their shul asked me if we observe the sabbath and I said no and they turned to me and said and you consider yourself a Jew. That was interesting. EC: In other words they were more observant? ES: Oh, well, I think the English Jews are much more orthodox than we are. In fact it’s only very recently that London has a Reform synagogue. They never had one before. EC: Now in terms of other things in the Jewish community do you remember any things like I understand there was a Yiddish theater in Hartford? ES: Well I don’t know about the Yiddish theater. I don’t remember that. I went to many Yiddish performances. EC: Oh, performances. ES: But there was no Yiddish theater as such. But every time there was a Yiddish play my father and mother and I went. I saw all the melodrama with Madam Lipson and the Adler Theater. That is Yakov Gordon was then the playwright. He was one of the greatest of the Yiddish playwrights. EC: And they used to come here? ES: And they used to come here with his troupe and I remember seeing Paul Muny once when he was on the Yiddish stage and I thought that he was a marvelous, it’s called something else, I don’t remember what. I remember his monologue once that if you’re a Yid, ______ a Jew doesn’t do this and a Jew doesn’t do that and I remember do many things from way back there where it was deplored that Jews were forbidden to do many things. That’s why I think there’s been a tendency toward dropping the ritual. EC: What happened, your mother keeping a kosher home had to shop elsewhere? ES: Oh my, she used to go down on Windsor Street, my mother and EC: Windsor Street what was that like? ES: Windsor Street, I didn’t see too much of it but it wasn’t a very nice street. It was a little on the dirty side but all the nice bakeries, the Jewish bakeries were there, and the chicken markets and the fish markets and Thursday was the day when you went down and you came back loaded with the fish and meat. Of course mother made her own challah. Which woman didn’t in those days. But kosher meat and fish came from, and poultry came from Windsor Street. And later Pleasant Street. Those were the streets. EC: Now you said that Zionism was part of your home life, what were some incidents relating to Zionism. ES: Oh yes. My mother was a great adherent of the Pioneer movement. The women’s Zionist organization in this city. EC: The Labor Zionists? ES: Labor Zionists, that’s right. In those days they used to have speakers and very frequently Golda Meir, who was then known as Goldie Meyerson, used to come here and she was a very great friend of my cousin Shayna Keddis and of my mother’s. and I remember a certain Sunday when she came and spoke for the Pioneers that she came to our house for supper and my mother was very excited about it. She thought a great deal of her. My mother had my aunt and my uncle and the Keddis’ and it was a hubbub there because Goldie was here and I believe she slept overnight. She was a great person that you could tell it in those days a tremendous enthusiast. She just infected you, injected you with her enthusiasm for Palestine. My father was always a Zionist. He belonged to the ZOA as far back as I can tell we always had a Jewish National Fund box, always. Subsequently I got to Israel myself. Unfortunately my father and mother couldn’t had been with me or my husband but I had that pleasure at least. EC: That was wonderful. ES: Yes EC: The meetings in Hartford you said you do remember, of course, this particular one you remember about when Stephen Weiss came, do you remember other people who came to speak for the Zionist movement. ES: Oh yes. EC: Who were some of them and do you remember anything specific about any of them? ES: Oh I wish, there was one particular person EC: Schmaahu Levine is he someone? ES: Schmaahu Levine, of course I remember him. He was a great person. I remember one meeting it was either a Polize Theater or at the Palace it was a big mass meeting, a rally. It preceded the meeting that Weitzman came to talk to Hartford and he mentioned, he told the story of who was the Frenchman who was persecuted by EC: Dreyfus ES: Dreyfus. Good lord, I couldn’t remember. And everybody wept. He told it so beautifully. Schmaahu Levine spoke Yiddish like nobody in all the world. He could make, the words sounded magnificent. Nobody ever thought it was beautiful until you heard Schmaahu Levine speak it. I remember him telling the story of Dreyfus and everybody using handkerchiefs. That one thing I recall. Who else spoke here? EC: Do you remember Weitzman? ES: Weitzman was speaking of course. I remember Weitzman as a speaker. And Weitzman happened to come from Motely that was the small community where he lived. It was near Pinsk. Where a lot of my mother’s family came from. And he was related to some of the in-laws on my mother’s side of the family so that when 38 or 40 years ago when he came here the two cousins whom I visited in Israel worked in his office and knew him very very well. EC: It is sort of interesting that all Jews seem to be brothers or cousins. ES: Well (this is in Yiddish) they say. I guess that’s so isn’t it? EC: Right, I think there were other people in Hartford to who were related to Weitzman. ES: Well everybody claims a relationship to Weitzman. These two cousins, my cousin Sara and my cousin Rachel were his nieces actually. But they were mine by marriage. My relatives by marriage. Their husbands were my cousins, my first cousins. EC: Do you remember any of the local Zionist leaders? ES: Well, who do I remember? I remember Levit, he was in the candy business. EC: Samuel Levit? ES: Yes, he was quite a Zionist. And of course, you remember Herschel Eisenberg, he was also very much involved with the Zionist movement. He was married to a cousin of mine. As a matter of fact he was married in my house. EC: I think he had bought one of the Palestine, one of the first shares in the Palestine ES: Yes, in the company. Yes, this think I recall that. He was a great believer in it. And for him it was a tremendous turn-about. I don’t know whether that’s important or not. But you know he had been an anarchist in Russia and EC: Oh? ES: Yes, and he really had to flee because he would have been made political prisoner of the Czar if he had stayed there. But when he came here he did a complete turn-about. He really became very much involved with Zionism. He was all for Russia in the early days. You know he was going to help the revolution along even then. EC: Was that that 1905 revolution? ES: Yes, we came in 1907 and he was involved in the 1905 revolution. That was the back-to-the-land revolution. But he became an avid Zionist. EC: Well do you remember a great deal of conversation amongst Jews taking these various points of view? ES: I remember conversations in my own home. Some would say that there is a possibility of a homeland. Many would say there is no possibility in the early days. I member one of uncle arguing the point and my father felt that there could be a possibility. He thought that if all the world Jewry got together there would be a possibility. This seemed more likely because in my day I remember the discussion about Uganda being offered to the Jews. EC: Oh you remember that? ES: My father told me about it. I remember other undesirable places being offered to the Jews. But my father did really feel that there was a possibility. EC: Do you remember anything of Hertzl? ES: I never saw Hertzl. EC: No, but I meant do you remember, would you remember for instance when he died? ES: No, I don’t remember that of course I read the Udenschatdt and I knew what made Hertzl into the Zionist that he was. I think it was the Dreyfus trial actually which we has reporting. But I never remembered h is death. My father used to get two newspapers. He used to read the Forward and the Toketlack, I think it was. And I remember his reading it out loud. EC: Tell me, how did you get interested in the piano? How did it happen that you first took piano lessons for instance? ES: In my day, you know, the vogue was every respectable Jewish girl has to have a piano and I had a piano. So of course I had to have piano lessons. And I met Moshe Paranov some time ago. I think through Ida Udovich who knew him, they were neighbors of something, and through him I met Julius Hartt. And I studied at the Harttt School which was then at 184 Sigourney Street. EC: About how old were you at that time? ES: Oh, I don’t remember that. EC: What that in the teens? ES: I was in high school. EC: In high school at the time. ES: I was in the teens. EC: Ya, that’s what I meant. ES: I went to the Julius Hartt School for right years EC: Was it the school at that time or was just Mr. Hartt teaching? ED: It was Mr. Hartt and it became a school when it got too small for them and they moved to the corner of Sigourney and Collins Street. And I still continued to go there and they did many wonderful things, it had the beginnings of a school. For instance they used to have people like Harold Bauer, who was at that time the foremost pianist of his day he came to lecture to us. And we had the Masses, Clara and Morris Manus who taught theory and harmony at the school, they would come on an afternoon and we would hear them. So you see it had the beginnings of a school and really it was Moshe Paranov who was the one who organized the school. Mr. Hartt himself was too much of an artist and too much of an art critic in those days to be concerned with the pragmatic things that go into the making of a school and he was marvelous at organization. EC: You’re talking about ES: Moshe Paranov EC: Moshe Paranov, he organized the choir, the St. Cecilia Choir, to which I belonged. I don’t had a voice to my name but I belonged anyway, and he was the founder of many an innovation at the school. There would be a tea for instance and there would be some playing of some singing and that’s how the school really got started. EC: Well, can you perhaps tell us a little bit about Mr. Hartt as you knew him as a man and something about how I think you mentioned something about Bohemian lives ES: Yes, Mr. Hartt was the artist, toes up, and he wanted, I know he wanted me to come and live there and be part of the set up. There were many student who stayed at the school, who practically lived there. He wanted me to be there all the time. He offered to give me free lessons if I would stay there. Well, I was an only child and I wasn’t about to leave my mother and father, nor would they be about to let me go there. But I went as often as I could and I did what I could to be a receptionist and that kind of thing. He had a real Bohemian atmosphere. Everybody and his little brother were there. But Mr. Hartt himself had no head for business it was Morris Pearlmutter, Moshe Paranov, who really originated the school and made it what is today and he should get credit for it. EC: I’m sure ES: I’m sure he’s been recognized EC: Oh, I’m sure he has. It seems to me that there were many young Jewish people that joined this _______ of ES: Oh yes, the two biggest part – the late Esther and the late Rose Raydon were there. For the moment think of others. They come immediately because they were my friends and we did a lot of things together. EC: Well did they teach only the piano there or they taught… ES: No, no there was Siegel the violinist, I can’t think of his first name EC: Rueben ES: Rueben Siegel and there was a woman who taught voice culture, I don’t remember her name. I think she was Miss Warner, if I am not mistaken. That I know. Any other instruments I don’t believe were taught there, piano, voice and fiddle and that’s all. It was a great school, really. And then they moved as you know to Broad Street. EC: Well that was much later ES: Much later. That was after I was married and away from Hartford. EC: The beginnings of the Hartt School were finally, I think, recognized, weren’t they by ES: Ya, well the later Mrs. Fuller. I recall one summer Mr. Hartt had a camp for his students at Windham and it was really just for vacation, it wasn’t for any other purpose and we had the most wonderful time. I remember the living room of the camp with two great big fireplaces and I recall – oh yes, the older children, Morris Older children were at the school and Mr. Older became interested in the camp. Well one night I remember he came to see the children and we kept him over for supper. And we sat around the fireplace and he told us stories out of his law practice that were very, very interesting that’s one of the things I recall. The school went on a grew and after a while I understand that the Fullers, from Fuller Brush, especially Mrs. Fuller who was very music minded, became very much interested and really became angels of the school. made very nice contributions. I understand it’s continuing now they’ve endowed the school handsomely. And as I see the school now it’s gone on to be recognized the country over. EC: Is that right? ES: Yes, yes. It’s known all over. They give degrees all over. They give degrees in music and their accomplishing marvelous things, really. EC: Now to go back – you mentioned that Moshe Paranov, who was Morris Pearlmutter, I believe in those days? ES: Yes, yes EC: Was very instrumental in the growth of the school but perhaps you will elaborate a little bit more, but also I believe that Irene Cohn and Sam Berkman were very much involved ES: Oh yes. You know I forget things so these days so it’s a revelation of my chronology, don’t tell anyone. Of course Irene Cohn was at the school and of course subsequently the man who became her husband, Sam Berkman became Dean of the school but he was still at college when she came into the school and became an excellent pianist and has done marvelous concerts with Moshe and solo and so forth. I recently saw Sam, I think now that he’s probably Dean Emeritus I don’t think he’s connected with school. I go these Wednesdays for Musical Wednesdays and I see him there. I haven’t seen Irene but she certainly was one of the important adjuncts of the school. EC: Now Mr. Hartt, what were his beginnings? ES: I don’t know too much about his early beginnings but I know that when he came here he came here with a very high idealistic standard of what music should be in the community. Hartford was a small community and I remember an episode they had just started the symphony orchestra and Mr. Hartt had taken a job of being critic, music critic for the Hartford Times, and this particular time he reported the concert given by the Hartford Symphony and he panned it a little bit. He didn’t think that it came up to his standard of quality. And then he said the woodwinds were so out of tune that he realized why the City of Jericho fell. EC: That’s very good. ES: And then the following day I remember there came letters galore to the Hartford Times criticizing the critic’s criticism in which they said goodness gracious we need a Hartford Symphony. Don’t let’s discourage it. Now Mr. Hartt was given what for. But he didn’t lay off. He expected just the highest standards of musical quality from any performer. EC: Who did good of course? ES: Oh yes. EC: Tell me, why do you think so many Jews were interested in music and became involved in music in the City of Hartford? ES: I often wondered about that, Emma, myself. I wouldn’t call myself a musician but I love music and my father loved music. My mother used to call it scripin. He played the fiddle. You know. Scraping. I think Jews are musical as a people. I think. EC: And given the opportunity ES: Given the opportunity they developed it. They never had the opportunity in Russia certainly. They couldn’t make a living. EC: No in other words ES: Or wherever they came from. EC: On the other hand a number of Jews in Hartford were making a living at music? ES: Yes, yes. They developed it to a point where they could either teach it or perform it. EC: Now what kind of - how do you describe Moshe Paranov as a person, as a musician? ES: He had a very humble beginning as you know. He came from a large family who quite poor and Mr. Hartt met him when he was going to the Goodwill Club. EC: Oh, what was that? ES: That was Goodwill Club was like a social service performed by the Goodwill organization. I don’t know whether that was church oriented or not. I don’t think it was. And he found a boy when he was playing the piano by ear and he became interested in him. And of course time proved him to be correct because Moshe is an excellent conductor. He is a musician toes up. In addition to that he had the quality of really doing a job for the school. Everyone would give him that. He did great work for the school. EC: In other words you think he has the quality of being able to organize things. ES: That’s right. He organized EC: A good administrator? Is that what you mean? ES: Yes, I think so. I think so. I think that that never could have been without him. Now Mr. Hartt was an excellent teacher. He was a great musician but he had not idea of how to organize, how to do anything with creating a business out of it, you might say. And it is a business in addition to being a great contribution to the arts. It has to be on a business basis. And Moshe knows how. EC: I heard somewhere that Moshe had been in a choir, in a synagogue choir, as a child? Do you know anything about that? ES: That I don’t know about at all. I know that Mr. Hartt met him at Goodwill Club which was then on Winthrop Street. EC: Did you know of any other people that went to the Goodwill Club? ES: I don’t know of any other. I think it was more or less a social service. I’m pretty sure it was that. EC: What do you remember by the way of our entrance into World War I? ES: Oh that EC: What do you remember also of the heavy immigration that came about that period? ES: I know that everybody brought somebody over. Including my mother who brought over her two nephews. One of whom has since passed on. They lived with us and my father felt towards them as if he were their father and loved his as if he were their father. They lived with us for many, many years. One became a druggist and the other went into business. I remember that everybody brought somebody over. In those days and if somebody came over you lent him a helping hand. That’s one thing about the Jewish community. I remember also that my mother was a member of the Gemillis Hesset which is the interest-free organized where you made loans to people who needed it. And people would take out loans from Gemilis Hesset to send to their family for a ticket to come to the United States or for maybe to start somebody in a little business. I knew somebody that went to the Gemillis Hesset to borrow $50 because he was going to need a horse, he was going to become a bread peddler. That was a lanceman. And he could get that money free of interest. EC: Is that a Jewish. ES: That is strictly a Jewish EC: Oriented – I mean did the Jews start this kind of a ES: Yes, Gemillis Hesset means a loan of mercy actually and from that came the so-called credit union. We used to call it by another name. The Oxia. That was the origin of the Oxia. Although Oxia really means borrowing for eight days my father told me. And of course that’s been extended to mean something else. And from our Oxia there are now credit unions in every big organization, business organizations. EC: Now do you think that was a Jewish inspired ES: I’m sure of that because the Oxia was strictly Jewish and of course it arose out of a need for the immigrant to get funds. Now if you invested in an Oxia you could borrow more than you invested. And you interest would be practically nil. And then at the end of the time if there was any money made it was distributed. But strictly speaking it was really like the Gemillis Hesset it was practically free of any charge. EC: But the Gemillis Hesset really had no interest charges whatsoever? ES: None whatever. Gemillis Hesset meant that that’s what you got it for mercy. EC: Well, now do you remember any other institutions in the community in those days and also anything else relating to that particular era? ES: I don’t know. Oh, I remember an episode which reflects on the times and reflects on the way we Jews had had to struggle wherever we were. I remember during the depression my husband was an engineer. He couldn’t get a job. And he went to the Travelers at the EC: You’re walking about the depression of 19 ES: 1929 EC: 1927, 1929, 29 I meant. ES: He went to the Travelers for a job. He met a classmate of his. He graduated Renselaer. And when this man saw him he said oh this would be just fine. Fill out the application. We thought he had it. He filled out the application and we told his church affiliations. That was the end of the job. They told him they really didn’t need anybody. It was just all a mistake. That was number one bumping into anti-Semitism in this country. EC: Did you have many experiences ES: Well I told you the one about the teacher – with the fable. But not too many. You meet them but they’re minor, but this was so flagrant. EC: Well subsequently your husband, Frank, really didn’t stay with engineering? ES: No he didn’t. We went into business. At first he conducted, he was a buyer and advertising many for an individual chain of stores. When the EC: Like the Home Circle here? ES: Ya. And he then, after that we went into business. We were first away. We were away from Hartford for 12 years or so. EC: During that period was he working as an engineer? ES: No he was still with a chain of stores as buyer and advertising man. And then we came back here we went into business. And we stayed there until he got sick. EC: Would he have preferred to actively work as an engineer do you think? ES: Well my husband would never… I felt dreadful that he had to give up his career, but he was not a complaining individual. He never complained. I’m sure, I’m sure he regretted it. Because that was what he was trained to do. Of course had he lived a little longer engineers were at a premiums. EC: That’s right. Now you have a son who has done very nicely. Tell us a little about him? ES: Yes, I have what I call a lovely son if you will pardon the pride. He is a full professor of medicine at Tufts and he is involved in a great deal of research which NASA has commissioned him to do. Among other things he is a peri-cardiologist and has written many books and many papers on the subject. He has written several texts and a lot of small pamphlets and things. And does a great deal of lecturing all over the country. He has also been invited to lecture in Russia. They went for three weeks I think two years ago. He has also been to Japan to lecture. He is invited to go to South Africa to the Grottescore Hospital where I can’t think of the man’s name who does all the heart transplants. EC: Barnard? ES: Yes, Barnard. He is going there I think in July. He’s been all over the country on lecture tours and I’m very proud of him. Shall I be very modest and say that? Or immodest? EC: And what was his latest you said you were just showing me a letter ES: Yes, he’s become a full professor. He was associate until July. And then he was promoted to a full professorship which is quite a thing in medicine and he was quite young. He was only 45. So we are very proud of that and I’m very proud of the fact that when he got the letter he sent it on to me and he wrote a note and he said that if it weren’t for my devotion and my love and my encouragement this wouldn’t have been possible. And I’m kind of proud to tell about that. EC: Why not? I think this is very wonderful it shows a lot of things you know? Now, are there any other things that you would like to talk about that you can still talk about on this tape? ES: Well, what shall I tell you? I tried to make the best of my life. I live here with Rose who is a wonderful companion. She is my first cousin, she is my uncle Morris’ daughter. And I think we make a nice timer of it here. We entertain. My children come often. Her family comes often. She has nephews and nieces who are my cousins whom we see a great deal of and we get a great deal of devotion from them. They are wonderful people. EC: Well it shows the closeness of Jewish family life. ES: Yes, I think so. EC: Now do you remember going back to the earlier days when your uncle Morris had a store on Main Street? ES: Yes. EC: It seems to me that he had a very special kind of business. The sort of business that may exist now but you don’t hear about it very much. ES: Do you mean peddlers? EC: Yes, would you explain that a little bit? ES: Yes, he dealt with the peddlers. In those days everybody peddled in the countries and he made special concessions to the peddlers and they were all his clients and everybody came the Sherashefsky’s to the Sheri Company it was known in those days. EC: Well this was a method of doing business wasn’t it? ES: Yes, I imagine so. EC: People didn’t have enough money perhaps? I mean I don’t know what ES: Well extended credit to them of course. EC: Was this the beginning of a credit type of business? ES: I wouldn’t know that it was the beginning but I know for sure that he extended credit to his customers and he never lost anything on anybody very much and they lover, he was treated squarely and they loved coming back to his place. He was very highly thought of. EC: But to make it possible for a people to buy things that they couldn’t lay out all the money ES: Of course that’s what – Emma, immigrants came here with nothing. You know that most of the time. Nobody had money with them. They came away to have the freedom to make a living. And each Jew it seemed to me, Jews more than anybody else, helped one another, in those days. I think everybody was his brother’s keeper. So much more than they are today. We don’t find that so much today. I know that Lanceliker would come and if they needed a helping hand they got it. And if they needed to come somewhere you always had a bed for them. And sometimes for them and their families. Today is another story. I think the early immigrants were a much finer people, kinder people, more thoughtful people than the people are today, the Jewish people, I mean. We’ve taken on the qualities of our neighbors around us and we’ve become a little bit more self-centered. Don’t you think so? EC: Well, partly, except that I think in this latest crisis with Israel. ES: Oh, this shows, well of course. This is true but it takes a crisis you know for Jews to wake up and say after all we have to be together. EC: I guess maybe everywhere? I used to hear about people going to New York on the boat ES: Oh yes, many times. You stayed overnight on the boat. You slept on the boat. And I think for a buck and a quarter you had yourself a trip on the Connecticut River down to the Hudson in New York and you had a wonderful trip for $1.25. think of it. You can’t do that today. EC: No. What about, you went to the Hartford Public High School? Correct ES: Yes, yes. EC: Do you remember anything of the situation in the high school, what the Jewish boys and girls were doing, were there many there at the time? ES” There were many Jewish boys and girls. I don’t remember an episode that would point up the fact that it was Jewish. I know that the Debating Society always had Jews. We used to have debating societies and the Jewish boys were always the men that were tops in the debates. I don’t know whether that proves anything. EC: They were ES: They were. EC: Did you ever have any problems with anti-Semitism in the high school? ES: I didn’t personally. No I never did. I cannot say that I did. EC: But you felt that generally speaking Jews were active in the school? ES: I think so. I think we all could participate. EC: Did you win anything particular. ES: Well, I belonged to the musical club there. The choir. What was it called – the Glee Club. EC: Yes. ES: Of course there was music was being offered in the school for the first time, theory and harmony. And I studied that in high school. and I don’t remember much else. Oh yes, I remember one thing funny. I remember the late I can’t think of the man’s name, who was asked in the German class, how do you say king in German. And he said maylock. EC: Which of course in Hebrew? ES: Of course. EC: Well if there anything else that you would like to tell us about? ES: I wish I could think – perhaps after you leave me there will be just nine dozen things that I’ll think of but at the moment I seen to be vacant. EC: Well you’ve given us, I think a very nice idea of what it was like to come over as an immigrant child around the age of eight or so I believe and how your family integrated into this society and yet of course the Jewish cultural element has been very strong with you all your life. ES: Oh yes. EC: But not the religious? ES: I wouldn’t say that, I don’t know I just haven’t been particularly practice the ritual, the Jewish ritual like being particularly kosher. I light candle once in a while, certainly holiday times and lots of times Friday. But I don’t do very much else. We observe Passover by not having bread in the house and that sort of thing. I certainly don’t have pork in the house, or ham in the house but I am not kosher. I’ll confess that. I buy all my meat from a kosher market buy I myself don’t observe the kashrut too much. Which I think I think is what a lot of people my age at this isn’t it. EC: I don’t know ES: Doesn’t every capitulation to kashut lately a lot of people has taken it up. EC: Well it’s been really very, very nice talking to you. ES: Thank you. EC: And I think we have a very nice picture of your life growing up in Hartford and this is Emma Cohen and I am signing of for the Jewish Historical Society of Greater Hartford. I have just been interviewing Esther Shery Spodick and Mrs. Frank Spodick and the interview here will go into the archives of the Jewish Historical Society the date today is November 14, 1973.